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Roles of men and women
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by zparticus27
on 2007-11-27 21:03:57 (edited 2007-11-27 21:24:14)
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we got into this silly debate in class about roles of men and women in society... one said men should be the more successful between husband and wife,he said man should provide,take care and protect the wife and the wife should nurture and inspire the man... the other defended that a woman can still be a loving wife even if she surpasses her husband...the two should be equal...give and take... then later i read this article The underside of chauvinism By Ernesto Dedel III Inquirer Last updated 00:21am (Mla time) 11/27/2007 What if today is the end of eternity? What if throughout eternity I had lived and died on this Earth several times, and each time I lived I fell for just one woman? What if the bodies of all those women I loved belonged to just one soul -- an entity sent to live on earth each time I was born? What if I now stand before her -- the woman, the soul who had captivated me again and again? What will I tell her? How will I end our eternal story of love? And now, the words start coming... My love, in almost every lifetime that we were together, our roles were the same. I was your protector and you were my healer. In times of war, I was always the valiant soldier who rescued you from the enemy and you were the affectionate lady who healed my wounds. In times of peace, I’d be the one to save you from poverty and you’d be the one to make me appreciate my wealth. Until the 21st century came. In this century, you were born strong while I was born weak. It’s the ultimate chance for us to reverse our roles, for you to be the savior and for me to be the healer. You would be the genius who’d accomplish breakthroughs and I’d be your quiet inspiration. I’d be the one to make you feel relaxed when you come home exhausted after a day of struggle. You’d be the one to bring home the trophies and I’d be the one to show them off to my friends. I’d be the one to take pride in being married to an accomplished person. But such dreams would never come true. I’m not supposed to even dream these dreams, to entertain the idea of being married to someone much more accomplished than me. I should be the one getting the greater glory. I’m the one who should be the protector and rescuer. I should never be the dependent one. I ought to be the one to bring home the trophies and you are the one who’d simply ogle at them. That’s the way history has taught me to think. These are the standards that society forced me to believe. That’s why in your first triumph, my first impulse was to outdo you. When you went home exhausted, I refused to caress you. Because I didn’t want to be reminded of my inferiority, of the reality that you were contributing more to the world than I ever could, of the fact that the most meaningful thing I could do was to be your loving husband. But why don’t I just let you be the stronger one? Why can’t I just happily let you enjoy the success you deserve? Forgive me. I know I have sinned because I have deprived you of a perfect life—the perfect life you willingly gave me in each of all the previous lifetimes we had together. I know you’re thinking that things could have been much better if I had swallowed my pride early on. But you know what? I did that. I willingly swallowed my pride. I was more than willing to be the unimportant husband, to be the quiet inspiration whose only real purpose in life was to let you succeed. I was willing to remain unseen beneath the shadow of an intellectual giant. But society just wouldn’t tolerate that. It was a time when women could acceptably say that they were looking for a financially stable spouse and men could not, when a man saving his beloved woman from poverty was considered romantic and a woman doing the same thing for his man was considered promiscuous. Wives like you had the right to shine and be renowned. But husbands like me had no right to be overshadowed by their wives. Wives like you had the right to provide for their children. But husbands like me had no right to provide less than what their wives could for the family. I was willing to accept my inferiority. But would your mother and father have been happy to see you married to a man far less accomplished than you? Would your friends have not been worried that you loved a man who could offer you so little? And wouldn’t you yourself also have expected me to be much stronger and far more accomplished than you? Wouldn’t you have wanted me to be the better provider for our family? Wouldn’t you... “I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to take it out on you. I know I’m also to blame. I should have just turned a deaf ear to the irrational demands of society. I should have trusted you and believed that you wanted my love more than my strength. I just wish that it had been possible for me to just love you and not hear those derogatory words from my own male friends. I just wish that it was possible to build a home for the two of us without worrying that it’s much smaller than the ones you could buy for yourself. I just wish that it was possible for me to show off your awards to the visitors without them expecting to see mine afterwards. That way I wouldn’t have to see the half-concealed pity in their eyes whenever I had to tell them that I had none. I just wish that I could find bliss in seeing you reach your dream without me having to feel this chauvinistic envy. My love, I didn’t choose to be born into a world fraught with chauvinistic history. And I didn’t choose to be part of a society where boys are raised to become chauvinistic. God knows how I’ve tried to overcome the pressures that this sexist society has exerted on me. I don’t really expect you to forgive me. Just understand me. But you know what? Maybe, all that is about to be put behind us now. Eternity is about to end and no one -- not even God -- knows what’s about to come next. Why don’t you join me in the next eternal adventure? Let us be together in praying to the next God (who may not have to be addressed as He), in living on the next earth and in ascending to the next heaven. Maybe this time, it would already be possible for men like me to feel love without dealing with the pressure of having to be bigger and stronger than our female lovers. Maybe, I’d no longer be ridiculed for finding ultimate happiness in just inspiring you. Maybe, it would already be possible to deserve you even if I’m too weak to protect you. Maybe... Wait! I’m not even supposed to think that way, am I? I can feel your anger as I come up with those unmanly thoughts. Do you despise me now for lacking the will to be your protector? For not being man enough to assert my superiority? Do you abhor me for my weakness? For my failure to meet society’s expectations? If so, please tell me! Tell me how we should spend the next eternity. Or do you think I’m weak because I’m asking you to make the difficult decision when I -- the man -- should be the one to make it? Or ... damn! I no longer know how I should think! Enlighten me now. Please. My love ... speak up! What if today is the end of eternity? What if throughout eternity I had lived and died on this Earth several times, and each time I lived I fell for just one woman? What if the bodies of all those women I loved belonged to just one soul -- an entity sent to live on earth each time I was born? What if I now stand before her -- the woman, the soul who had captivated me again and again? What will I tell her? How will I end our eternal story of love? And now, the words start coming... My love, in almost every lifetime that we were together, our roles were the same. I was your protector and you were my healer. In times of war, I was always the valiant soldier who rescued you from the enemy and you were the affectionate lady who healed my wounds. In times of peace, I’d be the one to save you from poverty and you’d be the one to make me appreciate my wealth. Until the 21st century came. In this century, you were born strong while I was born weak. It’s the ultimate chance for us to reverse our roles, for you to be the savior and for me to be the healer. You would be the genius who’d accomplish breakthroughs and I’d be your quiet inspiration. I’d be the one to make you feel relaxed when you come home exhausted after a day of struggle. You’d be the one to bring home the trophies and I’d be the one to show them off to my friends. I’d be the one to take pride in being married to an accomplished person. But such dreams would never come true. I’m not supposed to even dream these dreams, to entertain the idea of being married to someone much more accomplished than me. I should be the one getting the greater glory. I’m the one who should be the protector and rescuer. I should never be the dependent one. I ought to be the one to bring home the trophies and you are the one who’d simply ogle at them. That’s the way history has taught me to think. These are the standards that society forced me to believe. That’s why in your first triumph, my first impulse was to outdo you. When you went home exhausted, I refused to caress you. Because I didn’t want to be reminded of my inferiority, of the reality that you were contributing more to the world than I ever could, of the fact that the most meaningful thing I could do was to be your loving husband. But why don’t I just let you be the stronger one? Why can’t I just happily let you enjoy the success you deserve? Forgive me. I know I have sinned because I have deprived you of a perfect life—the perfect life you willingly gave me in each of all the previous lifetimes we had together. I know you’re thinking that things could have been much better if I had swallowed my pride early on. But you know what? I did that. I willingly swallowed my pride. I was more than willing to be the unimportant husband, to be the quiet inspiration whose only real purpose in life was to let you succeed. I was willing to remain unseen beneath the shadow of an intellectual giant. But society just wouldn’t tolerate that. It was a time when women could acceptably say that they were looking for a financially stable spouse and men could not, when a man saving his beloved woman from poverty was considered romantic and a woman doing the same thing for his man was considered promiscuous. Wives like you had the right to shine and be renowned. But husbands like me had no right to be overshadowed by their wives. Wives like you had the right to provide for their children. But husbands like me had no right to provide less than what their wives could for the family. I was willing to accept my inferiority. But would your mother and father have been happy to see you married to a man far less accomplished than you? Would your friends have not been worried that you loved a man who could offer you so little? And wouldn’t you yourself also have expected me to be much stronger and far more accomplished than you? Wouldn’t you have wanted me to be the better provider for our family? Wouldn’t you... “I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to take it out on you. I know I’m also to blame. I should have just turned a deaf ear to the irrational demands of society. I should have trusted you and believed that you wanted my love more than my strength. I just wish that it had been possible for me to just love you and not hear those derogatory words from my own male friends. I just wish that it was possible to build a home for the two of us without worrying that it’s much smaller than the ones you could buy for yourself. I just wish that it was possible for me to show off your awards to the visitors without them expecting to see mine afterwards. That way I wouldn’t have to see the half-concealed pity in their eyes whenever I had to tell them that I had none. I just wish that I could find bliss in seeing you reach your dream without me having to feel this chauvinistic envy. My love, I didn’t choose to be born into a world fraught with chauvinistic history. And I didn’t choose to be part of a society where boys are raised to become chauvinistic. God knows how I’ve tried to overcome the pressures that this sexist society has exerted on me. I don’t really expect you to forgive me. Just understand me. But you know what? Maybe, all that is about to be put behind us now. Eternity is about to end and no one -- not even God -- knows what’s about to come next. Why don’t you join me in the next eternal adventure? Let us be together in praying to the next God (who may not have to be addressed as He), in living on the next earth and in ascending to the next heaven. Maybe this time, it would already be possible for men like me to feel love without dealing with the pressure of having to be bigger and stronger than our female lovers. Maybe, I’d no longer be ridiculed for finding ultimate happiness in just inspiring you. Maybe, it would already be possible to deserve you even if I’m too weak to protect you. Maybe... Wait! I’m not even supposed to think that way, am I? I can feel your anger as I come up with those unmanly thoughts. Do you despise me now for lacking the will to be your protector? For not being man enough to assert my superiority? Do you abhor me for my weakness? For my failure to meet society’s expectations? If so, please tell me! Tell me how we should spend the next eternity. Or do you think I’m weak because I’m asking you to make the difficult decision when I -- the man -- should be the one to make it? Or ... damn! I no longer know how I should think! Enlighten me now. Please. My love ... speak up! it kinda wierd... men are expected to be the providers and if he fails he is condemn by society as a worthless man and for a woman to provide for a man is seen as a woman desperate for a man,a woman fooled by her lover i just found this article intriguing... your thoughts? |
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Re: Roles of men and women
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by
on 2007-11-29 17:57:35 |
Either way, I don't think it really matters. If a man can provide for his family, great. If a wife can provide for her family, great. But I do think that the husband and the wife should be able to support each other (i.e. emotionally, advice, communication) because that is what forms a functional relationship. You can't have a functional family with out the husband and wife being functional. When spouses are not one, that is when you get all those stupid divorces and junk. 
So I drove into a parking lot one time and saw this person pull into a handicap parking spot. When you think handicap, you think wheelchair and whatever, right? So it just ticked me off when I saw the guy come out of the car perfectly fine. So then I ran him over. |
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Re: Roles of men and women
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by
on 2007-12-03 06:22:22 |
celeriter, i am 100% agree with you 
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Re: Roles of men and women
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This is the 21st century, everyone! Such a topic as the 'role of men and women' should not even exist. Today, everything is gender-neutral (which it should be). Women represent half-if not more-of the world's total population; they are now our most powerful resource. Doesn't the saying go: "The hand that rocks the cradle, rules the world?" We should-must-allow women the equal position that it is their right to have.   --> |
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Re: Roles of men and women
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Oh no, the topic should stay... If we throw away the topic and women are not willing to give birth anymore because "it's not their role anymore", there ain't gonna be a 22nd century. Natural roles will still exist no matter what, buddy |
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Re: Roles of men and women
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by
on 2008-01-09 03:30:59 |
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I agree with sai. even nowadays...there's quite a number of women who doesn't even want to marry just because of career... anyways...both men and women should do their roles successfully. (i'm bad at expressing my opinion >_<)  |
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Re: Roles of men and women
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by
 
on 2008-01-09 03:43:34 |
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< w > ;; errr... am i suppose to be here? well, i think that both side should provide...they are responsible for anything that the family needs! anyway, yea, men and women should fulfill their roles! what's the point of not marrying? then why should god create men and women then? =.= weird that some women do not want to married ... look, the childrens are so kawaii!!! but haha, to be succesful is important too!~ and >D do treat women equally!!!   |
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Re: Roles of men and women
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@Sai: Dude, have u even READ my post through to the end? Have I mentioned ANYWHERE that women should shirk their responsibility as life-givers and homemakers? But even as life-givers they must be given a more leading role in decision-making. It is a sad truth that today many women are doing just that, but that is because they are unaware of the fact they can wield power and be independent even within the home. I'm not asking women to shirk off their Nature-given mantle; I'm just saying that they should have a say in what they desire. --> |
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Re: Roles of men and women
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by
on 2008-01-10 20:08:46 (edited 2008-01-10 20:16:54)
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As long as neither spouse is eating out of a dumpster and sleeping in doorways who really care which partner is the bread winner? Personally I don't understand the concept of marriage. But I do know that neither spouse should have to compromise his or her potential for success as well as their strength just to satisfy a bunch of society-obsessed biddies. As far as I understand it, marriage is meant to be about people coming together and sharing their lives, not sacrificing them. If a women wants to get married and have a child, she should go for it. If she wants to become a CEO of her own company, sky's the limit -ideally speaking-. The dynamic with every couple is different. But holding on to an obsolete archetype where the women is supposed to stay pregnant and barefoot while the man goes out and does business is just plain silly.  |
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Re: Roles of men and women
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Personally, I feel that this letter or article is more then just in regards to gender roles. It's a love letter between two people who have always been there for each other. For one to say "I'm sorry" is so hard these days because of pride. In the article it's always saying over and over it's always the same, but at the end; it changes, and it says I want to start anew with you. It's still an issue today, that specific roles are played by specific gender. And yes, whether good or bad, it is changing. It's really up to us at the end to accept it or not. No one has ever had the right to take away our thoughts. We maybe oppressed but yet, we are able to think for ourselves. It talks about how "your parents would accept me." This world is a harsh and cold world. People everyday unconsciously make judgements based on frist impressions. And yes, sometimes it gets the better of people. For me though, I want a man to be able to rescue me and to comfort me, but most of all... I think that everyone just wants someone to cherish them. Of course, this is just what I think. |
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Re: Roles of men and women
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by
on 2008-01-14 03:44:55 |
I can't say much for modern society, but there is no gender discrimination in combat. People are judged by their strength. To have 'chauvenistic' views is a big weakness.  |
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Re: Roles of men and women
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by wind-spear5
on 2008-01-15 20:40:09
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I find this topic to be very delicate, and something that should be approched in a delicate manner(which everyone has done thusfar). Well I think that the roles of men and women will vary in every marriage due to various factors such as: morals, ethics, upbringing, and social interaction just to name a few. Back in the past women would assume the "house wife" role and stay at home and maintain the home by cooking, cleaning etc. Now in the 21st centery there aren't as many house wives early on in the marriage anymore because the wife has goals and dreams she wants to accomplish as well. So now in modern times there won't be house wives that will remain home all the time until they have children(perhaps), but even then the wife may just go to work as the husband's at work and the child(ren) are at school. So again the roles of men and women will vary, and also will differ from couple to couple(otherwise we wouldn't be uniuqe). Well gender roles of men and women? That's just sometimes a sexist way of avoiding certain chores at home for example: man doesn't want to clean the dishes then he tells the woman to do it because it's the "role" of women. That's a poor example but it gets the point through...I think. |
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Re: Roles of men and women
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by
on 2008-01-16 03:51:54 |
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Y'know in most animal societies the females do the more key roles like hunting and providing for the group. Take lions. You get one big male, all he really does is fight everyone, cuz that's his role. It's the females who do the hunting and gathering of food and teach the young how to behave in life and such. In apes The men are pretty much the same, the females go out for food and carry the youngsters, though the males do have some interaction. The females also are also the home makers in every sense of the word. They actually create new homes to nest in every day. |
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Re: Roles of men and women
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by
on 2008-01-17 16:14:47 |
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I know in (American) society, when a successful women is married to a not-as-successful man, he's often seen as a bum or something to that affect. Whereas, its much more acceptable in society to have a successful man supporting a woman. However, as time progress, stronger women start to emerge. Even now, Hilary Clinton has a good chance of being the Democratic candidate for the Presidency. Womens roles are starting to change as jobs that were once only available for men are now also available for women, and due to the fact that men and women can now receive an equal education. Me personally, I'm independent for the most part, I take care of myself, and don't rely on a man for anything. I'd like to think I'm the perfect example of a strong woman of the 21st century, however, (and I hate to admit this) I find myself every now and then looking for an assertive man, someone I can depend on to make decisions and to occasionally take charge. It's really a catch-22, either way you look at it. But either way, women in society are becoming more independent and not relying on men as much as they were mere decades ago. They are becoming more sexually independent. Less women "save theirselves" for marriage now, and more women are waiting much longer until they marry. Again, I don't know the global situation, but this is what's happening in America. |
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Re: Roles of men and women
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by
 
on 2008-01-17 19:24:34 |
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hmm these days, the scariest thing that women afraid of is if they pick a wrong husband.I'm dun feel weird if women doesnt want to get marry these days because women these days were treat like toys and often become the one to blame with.The web i listed below is about men & womens right.Dun get me wrong, i make it separate because I know some ppl hate us and maybe they dun accept our concept about women.But if u still want to check it, ure more than welcome! ^^ For Muslim http://www.geocities.com/clearpath2islam/womenislam.htm?= http://www.harunyahya.com/articles/50eminence_women.html?= For others http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2008/01/10/a-dispiriting-discourse-talking-about-women-and-responsibility-in-the-sunday-independent/ - renshi, humans are not animals...pls dun underestimate ourself because human have things called intelligence while animals dun have it.Also sorry for my broken english T.T , im not born with english.  |
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Re: Roles of men and women
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by zparticus27
on 2008-01-18 03:26:04
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first of all wow...people actually read that long article!hahaha i like Momo's assessment of the article, its more than just a article about chauvinism but a love letter of sorts... indeed our world has a gender neutral society(although there still no woman US president and that might change hehehe) but the fact still remains that for men and women alike, they are looking for certain qualities expected from their counterparts...for example a man expects his wife to cook for him, to know how to take care of a child when he/she is sick and in return the woman expects the man to provide, to protect etc... are these certain expectations a hinder to equality or a form of discrimination among men and women? if a woman cant take care of her child is she not a worthy wife? if a man cant provide is he a worthless bum? does the way society react to these expectations worth a damn to anyone? a guy can have a mistress and society sees it as a norm, a woman with another man is seen as a bitch and a slut... |
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Re: Roles of men and women
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by
on 2008-01-18 13:05:01 |
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^Yeah, "a guy can have a mistress and society sees it as a norm, a woman with another man is seen as a bitch and a slut... " That really gets to me too, guys who have a mistress or even mistresses are viewed as normal, or sometimes even PRAISED, where as women are looked down upon for it. Very good point, Zparticus. |
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Re: Roles of men and women
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by
on 2008-01-21 03:47:07 |
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I think all this 'change' is good. Personally speaking I'm more attracted to women who challenge me in any case. Hell, If I could find a woman who could beat me hands down, I'd drop down and propose on the spot. I've never expected anyone to cook for me and I certainly don't mind being called a bum. I've often wondered, where did these expectations come from in the first place? The only thing I've ever really learned in life is that the vast majority of men that I have seen have been really scummy to women. I reckon it's down to parenting. I hate my 'father', aint seen him since I was young. So I've only ever had my mom. I've never really had a male figure to influence the way I live and so I kinda had to build my own interpretation of what a 'real man' should be. I believe that the behaviour of parents can be passed straight down to their children. Kinda like that argument that saya if a child is brought up in a drink and drugs environment then most of the time they become drink and drugs dependent themselves. I'm not sure whether I've communicated my point properly, but, for the most part, I think it's a fair argument. |
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Re: Roles of men and women
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I think there is that line that exists in between how a man must act as a responsible individual and what a woman in the society should be. It is stereotypical to say that women are the ones who stay at the house, clean the floor, wash the dishes, dust the tables and sew stuff. Hey, we have women who work! So I guess we should go in between the line and think: should we let this line make us believe that there is this discrimination that exists, or that we should just erase this line and hug each other and exchange tears, laughters and smiles to each "races"? But then again, that is really hard. I guess the women are vandalized, and that their reputation are never-changing. Should we let it be? |
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Re: Roles of men and women
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I don't think one can really discuss how to respond to the existence of social roles based on gender before at least loosely defining the interaction between the basis of an individual's self-conception, the pressure of society, and the individual's role in responding to society. I.e. Does Mary think that being a woman affects who she is, beyond just her physical abilities, function to the specie, and hormones? What does Mary think is 'beyond' the mentioned criteria? Does society pressure Mary to think that "As a woman, you should..."? Does Mary have to respond or acknowledge that pressure? Does Mary ought to respond or acknowledge that pressure? Who defines the ought? It seems to me that it's been taken for assumption that 'social expectation' and 'individual determinism' always and necessarily work against each other. |