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Re: Determination and self-control
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by
on 2007-09-14 05:57:48 |
These are the two important factors that can really separate us from one another. We.. must be able to hold our ground.. and to look forward into the future. We must not be defeated so easily by sheer obstacles. We must bite the bullet to face our fears and to soar to reach our dreams!!  |
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Re: Determination and self-control
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by
on 2007-08-27 00:44:24 (edited 2007-08-27 00:46:02)
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@somethingclever- while you make some good points and i do agree that at a fundamental level, free will does not in fact exist, i believe you have really simplified the matter too much, the lack of freedom is something inherent at a more subatomic level, the fact that there are only x number of possibilities and that those are limited even further by the things you mentioned, as well as the likelihood of which option that will be chose being heavily affected. Also, the environment based argument you present, while having some truth to it, is more or less outdated and doesn't really stand as a be all and end all argument in today's world like you try to make it to be.  |
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Re: Determination and self-control
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| Would fate interfere with the concept of free will? If everything is predetermined, how can any action be taken freely? After all, if you're going to do it anyway, what does it matter if you think you are doing it of your own volition. |
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Re: Determination and self-control
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by S-a-c-h-i-e-l
on 2007-03-11 17:40:21
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All right, clever boy... >:D Give me undeniable, flat-out, rock-hard proof of what you're saying. Show me examples, people, circumstances, everything you possibly can, and I'll believe you. Until then, I have nothing to say but "That's a grand opinion you have!" :D  |
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Re: Determination and self-control
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by somethingclever
on 2007-03-11 15:24:51 (edited 2007-03-11 17:23:40)
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"For example, you can decide to be good or bad regardless of how you've grown up." Nah, you just ignored what I said because you are unable to either grasp what I'm saying or are unable to rebut it. Explain how you choose between good and bad. I'm sure you can't at least not accurately. I bet your understanding is "just cuz." I already explained why a person regardless of background can be "bad" or "good" even if it supposedly goes against the way we are raised. We all have different perceptions and no two experiences are exactly the same therefore we cannot perfectly categorize or predict a persons actions or state of mind. Plain and simple we do not choose our environment and cannot choose what we do because our actions are based on the environment we are in. If our environment is entirely different we will most likely do things very differently. That's my point and it is a fact. We make choices based on what input our senses give us and we cannot choose what we are subjected to. You cannot choose them from birth and you cannot choose them at any other point in life. You could try to run away from a place or environment but you'd only do so because the experiences you had there have made you choose to leave. We make choices based on environment/experiences thus if we are "good" or "evil" it is because of our perceptions and what where we are/what we experience. That means none of us can truly be good or evil because we never chose bwtween the two. I believe there is no such thing as true morality because of this. I also believe we are equal not because we are statistically but because none of us choose what we become. It is very simple. It doesn't matter if someone behaves one way or another and you believe it shows free will. Ask yourself would this person be different if they had lived a different life and had different experiences? Obviously. You cannot control these things so you do not control yourself. It's not rocket science. Many people claim we have free will entirely based on the idea that we are able to act "competely contradictory" to what we have experienced but that is only because they do not take into account that we all have different perspectives and ways of interpreting things. Just because you reject something like living a violent life despite being brought into one doesn't mean you have free will. Proof is that many people choose to live one despite it seemingly entirely illogical to others. If everyone had free will to simply ignore their environment no one would continue to live that way. It means you've learned somewhere down the line things that give you a reason to change and you see things differently. You didn't change just because you wanted to without thinking and if you did that wouldn't be an example of free will. Making a decision without being effected by your environment and past experiences is impossible because they are what our thought processes are made of besides instincts. To do make a decision without these things is to not think at all which is impossible. |
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Re: Determination and self-control
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Nah, actually we have a lot of control over ourselves. For example, you can decide to be good or bad regardless of how you've grown up. And the motivation doesn't have to be more than wanting to do good or wanting to subjugate others. In contrast it's harder to affect other people in a desirable way, since people have free will. |
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Re: Determination and self-control
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by somethingclever
on 2007-03-06 17:52:09 (edited 2007-03-06 17:55:25)
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You aren't addressing the fact that we do not control our actions because we cannot control our basic perceptions and information that we are given through the environment. Someone can "defy" things all they want through mental training or simply having thought processes that differ from the norm but it doesn't mean you have free will. A person who chooses to show great self-control only does so because they have been motivated to one way or another. Tests are irrelevant because they give a perfect example of necessary motivation. The idea that people simply think of different things is true but why? Because we all have different experiences and genetics. It's one or the other. Free will is not simply the ability to do resist something it is the ability to make a decision without thinking or being effected by our environment or genetics which is impossible. All decisions are effected by these two factors so nothing is truly voluntary so we are all swayed or biased one way or another. If external forces are strong enough we can be made to do anything so morality does not exist. An example of how free will cannot be is that throughout our lives we are constantly subjected to things we cannot control which shape our preferences. If we are inspired to choose a certain profession or goal it is because past experience has told us to. People often make remarks about how two people can go through identical experiences and go choose entirely different paths of life but such a thing is not possible. No two people can experience the exact same thing so we all make different decisions. "Both kids were abused. One became a rapist the other became an innocent hardworking person. Since they turned out different one must have had more self-control than the other, the one that became corrupted had a choice." That logic doesn't work because we all have different perceptions and people can be abused an infinite amount of different ways. Time, day, position, intensity, direction, etc all effect how we interpret things. The idea that we can expose ourselves to what we want to does not make sense because we don't choose what our values are. We are given them through each experience we receive whether voluntary or not. We cannot choose whether we are bad or good because we are exposed to things that shape our personalities before we even understand such concepts. Even if we try to ignore things we are inevitable effected by them. Many studies have shown simply reading or saying a specific word has an effect on people. Same with weather or other trivial things. |
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Re: Determination and self-control
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by S-a-c-h-i-e-l
on 2007-03-05 21:13:25
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...Nah, I don't believe that last post, no offense ^_~ Firstly, yeah, you don't control other people and their actions (meaning when and where you are born, etc.), but you DO control yourself. People have done amazing self control-related feats that defied all that "we do what our genetics say" stuff. I can't think of any off-hand, but surely you can find something somewhere. We all do whatever we will. And our will is what we want; what we want comes from out thoughts, and you can control your thoughts with enough work. Some people hear "Dictionary" and instantly think of dirty thoughts, others hear "Dictionary" and think of a learning tool. All you have to do is expose yourself to what you want to do, and you'll end up doing some of it sometime. As long as you try, you can accomplish ^.^v |
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Re: Determination and self-control
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by somethingclever
on 2007-03-05 20:04:36
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I simply believe we have no true free will. What we do and think is based entirely on genetics and environmental stimulus. We cannot control either. You cannot control where you are born, the family you are raised in, your genetics, the amount of money your parents make, etc. You cannot control who will meet or where you will meet people unless you can predict exactly what will happen when you cross a street or turn a corner. You can make "decisions" but you come to them based on input you do not control therefore you do not have free will. It is possibly that you could look to change your life around or persevere through a certain situation but only if you are properly motivated and that motivation comes through outside factors which you cannot control along with how you interpret them. I cannot do something without a reason unless it is a biological or psychological function that is reflexive. We are all computers, we cannot choose what programs we run or what hardware we use but we are capable of acknowledging these things consciously. That is all. It does not mean we can change anything. |
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Re: Determination and self-control
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by Daimian Nightwing
on 2007-02-24 21:58:51
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I saw this in a poster once: "You will miss 100% of the shots you never took" I think I have nothing else to add, all of the points were already covered....
Death is just another great adventure...
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Re: Determination and self-control
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I guess sometimes it's difficult for people to face and overcome their own fears in the face of adversity thus they come up with excuses like "I can't do this" or "it's too hard". Running from one's emotional problems does not solve anything (in fact it probably makes the anxiety worse). Self-confidence is a trait that gives a reassuring sense of happiness (some become addicted to this trait, which is narcisism) and makes it easier to overcome problems, thus making it essential to accomplishing one's goals. Forgetfullness (especially emotionally, due to put downs, dwelling on one's mistakes) can greatly influence one's self-confidence due to them losing the reason why they believed in themselves in the first place. I suppose the best thing to do would be to learn (but not dwell emotionally) from the past, live for the present, and hope for the future. Never stop questioning though, as that is the basis for learning and living life, for what it is worth. I agree with skYe in that teachers who berate you for your mistakes are not very good teachers (why focus on the problem when you can focus on the SOLUTION to the problem). That is why I personally do not like punishment because there are other ways to teach a person (even a behavioral problem due to the fact that...there is a reason that they do what they do) that don't involve such sacrifice. The root of all punishment is preconcieved retribution, which is a stupid, short-sighted way to look at things that doesn't really solve anything in the long run...it's just self-gratification. Sadism is one of the worst qualities one can ever have.
You need a reason to be sad. You don't need a reason to be happy. The secret to happiness is to face the fact that the world is horrible.
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Re: Determination and self-control
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You've all made such good points! I don't think I can actually say too many are contradictory to my own. Self-confidence is often lost at youth when children experience heavy punishment or face many put-downs because of the few mistakes that they make on occasion. If anything, Self-confidence is hard to regain if you've lost it. They say that the teachers who beat down on you are the best kind (not physically, mind you). But I believe that they are the worst. I'm not saying that they should pamper, but when they beat down they make it sound like you really CAN'T do anything right. Everyone makes mistakes. Everyone. But it's no sin to try. The sin is in not trying. It's hard to keep in mind that it doesn't matter what others say and that you should always move forward with self-confidence because everyone around you might be saying 'You can't do anything right.' If Self-confidence goes down because of put-downs, you can't help it sometimes. But you can fight it back. There's only that much hope, but if you fight back - you can overcome. Laziness, however, is a different story. It's human nature! Many, many times we want to do things, and we say we will...in time, and we end up pushing it away for another time. "I'll do it later" is the worst excuse. Avoid it. Not later. Do what you know you have to, and do that right now. Because, as they say, it might turn out to be a 'now or never' case. "It's too hard," is heard sooner than it should be heard. I hear people say it after running (or reading, game, homework, etc. Whatever floats your boat), and I try to tell them to keep going. They say, "We're not all like you," but actually, everyone has the capability for everything. 'Talent' only rises when certain people can do it and other can't. Unless you have some sort of disorder (no offense meant) - we are equals. Not same...but equals. We are all equally important, and equally skilled. Perhaps it has become in different areas, but skilled none the less. Nothing is too hard if someone else has done it. Everything comes with the package that requires a lot of hard work, but we are all capable of putting in that effort. Also, after reaching the goal, all the hard work doesn't disappear, it mounts to your experience. And besides, it just feels great to say, "I finished _____!" sometimes, doesn't it? "I can't change it," is like stating that you can't do anything to help, when you hold as much power in your hands as anyone else. To help change, all you need to know is how. From there, you have to start. As I heard somewhere, "Success depends on individual initiative." If you don't even know how you're going to proceed, how you're going to walk - how can you walk? Setbacks are a part of life (and I KNOW I sound really...typical) and just like everyone says, all it really takes is to stand up. From there, everything is natural. I KNOW how hard it is to stand up again - but keep in mind that even if you THINK you're alone, you're not. People all around the place are working hard to regain what they'd lost. You're not the only one. You're never the only one. With that in mind, always try to advance. I recently read this really nice short story and the message was quite nice and fitting, "Don't you feel that it is pleasanter to help one another, to have daily duties that make leisure sweeter when it comes..." And it is very true. If you work hard, the relaxation time in life is even sweeter than it was last time. I'd like to conclude with the note that applies also to me: (and I still don't always listen..^^;) "Practice what you preach."  |
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Re: Determination and self-control
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I quote from The magical Shopping Arcade of Abenobashi: "Where your mind goes, your abilities are soon to follow." I play indoor soccer. And one thing that perturbs me is when someone needs a break and they stay on the field. I beleive in determination, but timing and preparedness have to be taken into account. Not everyone can run a marathon at a drop of a dime. If someone becomes too overzealous in their determination that they go blind to the obvious, then I think there's a problem. Self-control is an under-rated quality in people, I have friends who have screwed up their lives because of giving into peer-pressure. As for choices, I agree that there is always an option. Even no action is an action. I also beleive that ignorance, while it is the bane of clear thought, is also an effective weapon. Just as faith is an effective armor.
The next witty thing I think of and remember will likely end up here.
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Re: Determination and self-control
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by
on 2007-02-10 14:45:05 |
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I think I wrote something like this a long time ago. I heard it somewhere: ~~Do or do not, there is no "try"~~ I really like it because it represents that when you wanna do something, you must go for it! completely... not being lazy, as hard as you can. When someone says "I can't change it", why don't saying "I don't want to change it" instead? Determination is powerful... believe me.   |
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Re: Determination and self-control
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by
 
on 2007-02-08 15:46:57 |
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Yep.. I agree with Sach.. We can find a lot of people saying "I can't do this",, "It's too hard" or something like that... but in fact,, mostly they just don't want to do it.. either it has no beneficiary for them or they're too lazy for that or whatever.. and about "I can't change it"... I really hate this quote.. you make your own decision.. if it's wrong.. you're the one to blame.. and by saying you can't change it,, you want to blame the others.. not always.. but mostly it is.. like "I can't change it.. they made me like this.. and it's too hard for me to go back now" that's just an example.. i mea.. people who say this thing mostly want to blame the others.. they don't want to take the responsibilities of what they did.. and I agree with Dark,, people's self-centeredness is the cause of this matter.. 
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Re: Determination and self-control
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by
on 2007-02-08 13:01:56 |
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I agree with all the points made by the original poster. However, I would like to add that the choices we make everyday is based on how much life experience we have. For those who are chronologically challenged (young people), they may not have enough experience in their life to make sound decisions. I think I can safely speak for all of us that there are decisions that we make now that would have been made differently if those decisions were made when we were younger. Take marriage, for example. If I was 16, I would have loved to marry the girl of my dream. But if you ask me how I think about my marriage now, I would say you better know what you are getting into before you get married because it can be too hard for some people. And by the time you realize you made a mistake it's too late. Also, as you get older, some decision are made much easier such as loving someone. That is because as you get older you realize your time here on earth is short. There is no time to lollygaging (spelling) around.  |
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Re: Determination and self-control
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by
on 2007-02-08 10:27:54 |
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This is too true. Even I do it sometimes. Especially when it came to my classes in Kendo. Sach is totally right. but in these times, people tend to care less of others' opinions and are more self centered. "I can't do it" " I can't help it" "I had no choice" always pointed and centered around I I I Me Me Me. kinda get it right? now these days, parents are more or less lax on their children. I've noticed this in many a cases where children that whine and throw tantrums get their way. This leads to less self confidence in working areas and more cockiness in popularity subjects. "My way or the highway" as they would put it. In these senses, it's pretty apparent that most of these qualities come from past areas. self-confidence also plays in roles of suicide. Emotions have the ability to cloud logic, logic is viewed as unimportant, Most are more cocky than confident. Even in my work as a kendo instructor, I have to make the determination to make lessons and keep those demonic kids in check. I always feel crappy in the end or even in the middle of it thinking " can't do this" But why I'm still doing it is because I like it. I suppose in the end, people's self-centeredness is going to be the downfall of all common sense, right?  |
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Re: Determination and self-control
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sometimes the choices given will not give satisfaction to us. so, we'll just have to choose the best out of the worst. living in limited choices has been the routine of my life. so many factors, family, friends, rules, and stuff restrict me from doing what i want. yeah, it hurts me sometimes, but i wont want to just brood about it and waste my life. even in the harsh situations, i'd want to make the best in everything. eventhough the best isnt good enough, i would be satisfied that i have tried hard on them. and people can control themselves if they want to. hoping for miracles to happen wont change anything. if you want to change something, change it with your own two hands (and brain, of course), just sitting there and thinking of failure that might happen (i cant change it, it was too hard, i cant do it, what if... etc etc) wont do anything. get up, wake up and get some common sense, and start acting. maybe your act wont change something major, but its a change nevertheless. so, self-control and determination? i'd say "dare to fail", even if you've chosen the crappiest choice, maybe its best for you. and the quote "try harder" is one of my favorites. im such an optimist :D  |
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Re: Determination and self-control
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by
on 2006-08-23 06:14:54 |
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sach yes, you got it bro!^_^ why were you worried if you had misunderstood it? am i that disorganized in writing? haha... no they can't reduce the working hours. there's mandatory 2 hours overtime everyday. and we work graveyard because it's a contact center which serves foreign clients. i was one of their too many customer service representatives. it's the job's nature. i knew that the industry works that way but i never realized it would be really hard for me. the primary reason is that i can't like the job not really about not getting enough sleep. and your right why can't they just let me off instead of terminating me? so then i won't have a bad record and i won't have a hard time explaining to my future employer/s.  |
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Re: Determination and self-control
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I am going to test determination and self control for myself very soon. For the past couple of years I have been doing jack shit in school. Never doing my homework and rarely coming to class. But now since I have a need for a future I am going to have to actually work in school. I'm going to see how far determination and self control goes when I go from deliquent studnet to semi-rolemodel student. I'm still not gonna do all my homework or pay attention all that much, nut unlike the typical me; I am going to do some work. Anything can be changed, it just depends on how much effort one needs and how much they want it. Sometimes something that is too hard isn't worth the the reward it yeilds. But were theres a will theres a way. As long as one has the willpower one can change things according to their own image. If one thinks they are inferior then they should get some will to go exercise. Once they become a hulking mass of destruction, their self-esteem will raise through the roof. They can work to making a special talent or they can feel different by creating their own style different from anyone elses. Everyone has something to apply their will, self-contol, determination, and common sense. It all starts from their vision of what kind of person they want to be. If one want to be their own ideal of the perfect person then they should use the choices they have and show how much guts they have to accomplish it.  Jomunga eats your avatars. |
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