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Questions about religion
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by
on 2006-10-26 11:17:25 (edited 2006-10-26 18:55:29)
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I like to know about what God is and what lies in human hearts. From what I can tell I know for a fact that in every country, around this world, there are people that only care about themselves. Extremely few people my estimation being less than 1% are humanitarians. Those others that go for organizations that help the general public, most do not know what they are talking about. Thus far, I cannot understand why people would stereotype us all over appearances and race and religion. As for me, I have no religion. Though I go to a Christian Church, I do not believe in god. Thus far, God has done nothing but harm to us humans. He used hurricanes and earthquakes to kill us off. From what I can see, he is a merciless God no better than the lesser demons he presumes are worse. If he gave us humans a free will, then only we can decide if we want to die. The only problem with that is those idiots that like to drink themselves to oblivion that give others a hard time and a sudden death. As for natural causes, they are what they are. God did not have any power over us. Nor does he have any now. Far as I know, Religion only separates people of everything. Thus far, it strips us of equality. Religion separates people, but to have no god, that brings people truly together. If there was no religion, wouldn't there be no worries about what people thought of you? Wouldn't there be no discrimination against those that have no religion or those of a different religion? Right now, This government is mostly Christians. Thusly, that is what came from gay rights. Christians say it is wrong, but who are they to say it is wrong? On what grounds? Because they THINK god commands it? Marriage is a bonding of two intimately connected adults who are truly loving towards one another. But from that, nowhere does it state it MUST be between a man and a woman. If Christians know better, they would ignore such things. God gave man and woman freedom of choice and right now, Christians believe that that should be taken away. If they believe gay rights is wrong, then all people for all I care should stop thinking period. So, I'm in a confused state here. Humans have darkness in their heart, but where does it come from? and was it God that set it there betting with his brother who would win? Those are the things I wish to talk about. and sorry and thank you for reading this far with me.  |
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Re: Questions about religion
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| "there is no god" thats what i beleave to make it short |
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Re: Questions about religion
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by
on 2006-10-26 13:06:00 |
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in the name of Muhammad don't get me started on religion! organized religion has its positive uses, like helping alcoholics maintain their sobriety, giving support to less fortunate and troubled people, etc. however, the few negative encounters i have had with people in my life were quite often been over matters of religious belief. i agree with you 100% about god coming between people. 
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Re: Questions about religion
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by
on 2006-10-26 13:38:16 (edited 2006-10-26 13:46:52)
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"Thus far, God has done nothing but harm to us humans." God has harmed us humans? We do more damage to ourselves than God does to us. When you really think about it, why should god take care of us or protect us? We certainly havn't done anything to deserve that[With the exception of a few people that actually help and such]. Here's sort of an example. In our little world of Gendou.com, Gendou is god, he created this world and basically all of us who live in it. When we do stupid things like go crazy, ignore Gendou and his words completely and things like that, does he ban us? Sure as hell he does. Then what happens when people like that get banned for those reasons? Gendou changes the rules and gets more strict, thus hurting or annoying others. So in other words, when you do bad things others [as well as yourself] feel the consequences. So when people do bad things in the world it incurrs the wrath of some higher being and thus we all suffer. Now, about the darkness thing. That's just the natural order of everything. There will always be two sides opposing eachother and no-one, not even some god that created everything can change that. When you give people freedom of choice you give them evil.    |
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Re: Questions about religion
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Well I can see some people don't got faith. I'm not gonna bash you for not believing in a progenitor of the universe, I'm just gonna keep on believing what I believe. As for the Christian faith and its view on same-sex relationships I know where that's coming from. It's pulled straight from the bible if you ever cared to read the thing. I'm thinking it was somewhere in Leviticus via the Old Testament, maybe I can't really remember that fine a detail. I digress, it did state that god...namely The Lord...abhored men/men and women/women relationships as being something wholely unnatural. Just like knockin' boots with your mom, marrying your cousin, and all that good stuff. It's kinda one of the reasons he sulfur bombed Sodom and Gammorra. As for it seperating people....everything does that. If you have an opinion, somebody, somewhere is thinking the exact opposite thing. The degree of seperation is only mandated by you and the other party. Mainly you are the ones that decide it gets in the way. You could like chocolate and your boy could like vanilla but that doesn't mean your gonna go start an iceream war over who's right and who's wrong. Same idea with religion, please don't stereotype religious people if you don't want us stereotyping you. Ignorance is the main reason why the s*** hits the fan. People go around preaching to everyone else and not expecting a bit of opposition. Please if you got a bone to pick with people, atleast have the common courtesy to step off your high horse and understand why they do it. If you still disagree afterwards, f***, go right ahead. Like my man Socrates said, "A life univestigated is one not worth living." Or some s*** like that. Besides a lot of religions go hand in hand with each other. Jews, Christians, and Muslims all beleive in the same dude. In fact, during the expansion of the Islamic empire, after the death of Muhammad, the Muslims past over all Jewish and Christian churchs even when they overtook 1/3 of the Byzantine Empire and all of Israel. Jerusalem is still one of the most sacred places on the planet because all 3 religions have they roots there. Yes, yes I know Islam was founded in Mecca but it does not discount Jerusalem as a religious icon. So religion can live in harmony with other relgions. Hell ask your friends, I'm sure that most of them have different religious views from you. Does that stop you from being their friend? "The hearts of men change as time goes by" -Tupac I don't think it's really about the believing. It's about doing what you know in your heart to be just and good. It's thinking and not ignoring. All I know is that I've done some really stupid s*** in my life but if/when I am weighed and measured after my life ends that the good will outweigh the bad. Hahahaha, yeah maybe you watched Constantine but your wording is a bit off. Satan, Lucifer, the Serpent, Beelzebub, The Big Dude downstairs, whatever you wanna call him, is not the brother of the god you are refering to. In fact in most creation myths I have read the devil or opposite power was always created secondary to the heavenly force and in some cases does not exist at all. But in reference to Christianity he was the first angel and the only one who didn't bow down to Adam. He does tempt men to be led astray of what most religions believe to be the "good" path. And somethnig that popped into me noggin. If you don't beleive in god then why do you reference him as being destructive force on this planet. Wouldn't those hurricanes then be nothing but natural disasters? If that is true then you gotta let my man off the hook. It's only fair. =D |
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Re: Questions about religion
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Go read "Animal Farm" by George Orwell. It will help you learn about humanity and its desires of power. Do you think, in this society, a utopia could be built? Where everyone has one belief, living in harmony? Every person is different. No two are the same. As long people are different, their beliefs will be different. Religon is religon. The meaning of religon will not be changed. That is how the world goes. As darksamurai said, we do more damage than god does to us. Please compare. World War 2 and the total ammount of people dead because of "natural disasters". Which was more i wonder? Hitler alone killed more than 6 million people. "Natural disasters" kill about 6 people each time. What about noah's arc, about the 40 days of rainfall? that was probabily about a couple million people. World War 2, Hitler ALONE did 6 million. What about the hiroshima bomb, japanese invasion to china, german invasion to russia? That was only one war. If you counted how many people died from TOTAL human killing of each other, its probabily about a few billion~ish. So really, who does more damage, God, or Human ignorance, stupidity, and desires?~~~ BTW~ change ur sig yosho. Yours is too big
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Re: Questions about religion
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by
on 2006-10-26 18:15:05 (edited 2006-10-26 18:37:51)
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wait, wolf, did you just quote Tupac in your argument for a faith-based view of the universe? thats just wow. im pretty sure that believing in peace does NOT separate people in any way. :P i have had of friends, and former moderators, who have ruined their lives as well as their relationship with me over religion. thats just sad. grow up and think for yourself. "oh, some book a dead king wrote a thousand years ago says gay sex is bad, so im gonna pick a fight with the yaoi people over at gendou.com" -- i get this shit all the time. thats not religion, its intolerance. disasters happen because thats the way nature works. pressure builds and a volcano blows up. pressure builds and a subterranean mountain collapses creating a tsunami wave. the pressure didn't come from people's sins. this isn't the end of eva movie. its the real wold where real physics explains real life phenomena. when something goes bump in the night, its not a ghost, its a cat or something explainable. when a catastrophe occurs it was not the wrath of some creator being that has nothing better to do but sit around and wait for a chance to lay forth his/her vengeance against little ants living on one of several little planets orbiting one measly sun in some unknown spiral galaxy lost in some super cluster of galaxies in one of infinite possible universes. please. the only reason people tend to personify natural phenomena is for the same reason people feel the need for everything to have a purpose: lack of imagination. once you come to accept that nothing happens for a reason, life has no objective purpose, and that your soul is nothing more than a soup of fat-covered cells inside your cranium, real life becomes much more bearable. without giving into these realities, a person has no choice but to hide behind fantasies of eternal life, divine purpose, and all that garbage.
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Re: Questions about religion
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on 2006-10-26 18:42:09 |
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If you want a good read, I suggest Goldings "Lord of the Flies" that book does a great job of showing how mankind does nothing but destroy and create everything around them to suit their needs and beliefs, whether it be fear, god, monsters or whatever. Humans need religion in the world as much as they need science and explination, with no religion we become more arrogant with everybody believing that there is nothing more powerful than the human race. With no science we understand little about how things work and become more easily manipulated. Everything needs a balance, religion, science it all needs to be balanced. Without one or the other everything falls apart, yin, yang all that stuff. I could go on but it wouldn't have anything to do with religion. |
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Re: Questions about religion
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on 2006-10-26 19:04:35 |
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with no religion we become more arrogant with everybody believing that there is nothing more powerful than the human race. bullshit. a true understanding of science at a deep and reflective level reveals a universe wherein humans are small and meaningless in the vast reaches of space and time. i would argue that science and religion are not yin and yang. you cannot be fully rational in your thinking and, at the same time, maintain that some conscious entity created the universe. rational thought quickly dispels this possibility. if you are in a frame of mind where magic and demons seem to be possible and realizable, you are not in a rational frame of mind. similarly, if you refuse to accept contradictions, most modern religions would be unbearable, for they all contain contradictions in abundance. being that these two things are mutually exclusive, they cannot ever be balanced. a person is either a committed rational thinker, or a committed believer in that which is supernatural. i often encounter the later. anyone who claims to be both at the same time has clearly not thought about the problem hard enough, or with enough self-honesty.
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Re: Questions about religion
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by
on 2006-10-26 19:15:11 (edited 2006-10-26 19:22:17)
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How do we know the universe is as big as we believe it is? Until we are actualy able to get out there we may never know if we are the only things that exist here, or are nothing more than a few ants. Just because you think about it scientifically doesn't mean it's true, same for religion. There is no truth, it's all about how you think of it. Who's to say humans are the weakest and insignificant in this universe? Who's to say we aren't? We havn't answered questions like that yet. So saying we are is the same as saying we aren't. Since we don't know there is no answer. |
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Re: Questions about religion
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by
on 2006-10-26 19:24:44 (edited 2006-10-26 19:33:48)
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the cow says: "radical skepticismmmooo" you're just lucky this is the "other" topic, and not the "physics" topic, or i would let you have it :P all you need to do is look up at night to see that there are millions of stars millions of miles away. unless, you believe that angels hold the celestial bodies suspended on giant glass spheres. if so, there is an apocalypse insurance policy i think you will be interested in... there is no point trying to reason logically with someone who doesn't believe logic works. if you let go of a book, gravity might pull it down, then again, it might not. better hold tight to that bible there! it might fly away! whooooooo!!!!! spoooky!!!!! who says we are week and insignificant? i did, right? me. i said it. im god here, remember. god wills it! do you honestly think we cannot understand objects millions of light-years away until we "get out there" and see for ourselves? seriously? with that sort of logic, you don't know if i even exist! maybe i don't! maybe gendou is a mysterious visage conjured up by some clever magician just to fool you in a silly rouse or for some perverted experiment. "saying we are is the same as saying we aren't" -- no, there is a difference, highlighted here in red for your benefit.
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Re: Questions about religion
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by desertpunk
on 2006-10-26 19:39:41 (edited 2006-10-26 20:01:14)
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| I agree that it's man that's the reason for the evils on this earth, and nature for the disasters. |
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Re: Questions about religion
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on 2006-10-26 20:10:18 |
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You know for the first time I'm gonna have to diassagree with you on a topic gendou. As in any postulate a single counter-example makes it an un-true statement. I would like to present myself as the counter-example to the statement "you cannot be fully rational in your thinking and, at the same time, maintain that some conscious entity created the universe." I use my understanding of physics (albeit a very limited understanding) to help me accept some of the things that go "bump" in the night maybe weren't just the cat or shifting air currents. While I am commited to the idea of "that which is supernatural" I use rational thought to seperate what is plausible from what obviously is just plain fabrication. Ideas such as the prophet/lord/plain guy Jesus fed thousands of people with a 2 loves of bread and a few fish I find compleatly unbeliveable, I do however accept the fact that a "miracle" in the form of let's say a fisherman showed up and helped the ammount of fish. That I find more believeable. It is in this way that I look at my faith not my religion. I despise religion in all context, but I can embrace faith. Not everything needs ballance, the world is not a ballance. There may be opposites of things (i.e. light and dark) but there is by no means a distinc ballance of them. In all reality if there was an exact ballance of everything we wouldn't be here. All matter would have an exact opposite amount of anti-matter and so thusly the universe would be comprised of nothing but the energy from the reaction between the two. As you and I, this computor, the cables between us, the chair you sit in, are all comprised of matter there is not an equal ammount. We don't need religion to think that we are more powerful. I know that I'm not the master of the universe. Anyone with half a brain can see their not. If I may ask: When was the last time you caused a supernova? Oh you can't remember,maybe that's because you didn't? Anyone who thinks that they are the most powerful force in the universe needs to be locked in a 4X4 cage with a pissed-off bear. If that doesn't give you the correct preception that you or anyone is not the most powerful thing here, then you have issues. One does not need to go far from his own home to realize that he controlls nothing. Science doesn't prevent you from being manipulated, you prevent you from being manipulated. There has to be a certain process that takes place that enables you to simply follow someone or something blindly. It's a basic function of the reptiallian portion of our brains. One does not escape being controlled by simply finding out that an atom is made of "stuff." Like smokey says only you can prevent forrest fires, but what about lightning strikes. Oh wait, of course the arrogant non-religious people have control over lightning striking a 400ft tree. Yeah right, and my Grandma's mixes her meatmucil with her mind. To escape being controlled just know what you beilive in and don't give in to what others want, there's no science in that only logic. Ph34r r36!0|\| Ph0r !7 !5 84d 3m8r4(3 5(!3|\|(3 Ph0r !7 !5 7ru7|-| |
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Re: Questions about religion
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by
on 2006-10-26 20:38:01 |
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D-ninja, very interesting! your point about balance is well made, i wonder what darksamurai777 will think about that. the last supernovae i caused was last thursday, you mere mortals will find out about it in a few billion years. :D no but seriously, another point well made, props. i am still not understanding your counter-example to "you cannot be fully rational in your thinking and, at the same time, maintain that some conscious entity created the universe." it seems like you are rationalizing miracles into actual events. what does that have to do with an omnipotent creator being or eternal souls? cast your faith in either and you immediately reject common sense and logic. who created the creator? how can we verify or deny such a creator? etc. anyway, thanks for having the balls to disagree with me.
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Re: Questions about religion
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Well come on now think about it, you can't shake the faith of Tupac or DMX. The way I see it, religion helps a lot of people sleep at night. Yes it does seem a bit ignorant to dismiss logical questions by answering god but doesn't it just fit so well. =D Religion isn't completely about burning bushes, fire and brimstone, and sacrificing your first borns. It does lay out some pretty fair ground rules on how to live. Yes through many translations and interpretations of the words can make it skewed but the message is still kinda there. How can a society thrive if the people are thieving, lieing, and murderous inbreds? You tell them some big dude is gonna shove a lightning bolt up their arse if they don't use the better side of judgement and be fair and good to everyone. And just so that they don't question it, you tell them some stories, eventually write a big book about it which hardly any of the illiterate people back then would read, and preach the power and compassion of said big dude. Religion does serve a purpose and even when science comes up with some good hard proof to refute all of religion's claims then you're still left with the some good guidelines to running a society. Even science runs on postulates albeit some better explained ones but I've seen the scientific community come out and say, "Opps we goofed," a couple of times in my life. |
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Re: Questions about religion
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on 2006-10-27 10:06:55 (edited 2006-10-27 10:11:28)
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I agree that it helps simple people sleep at night. Like i said before, it has its usefulness. It is the dishonesty which I cannot stand for! Like you said, the stories in the bible are useful guidelines to a healthy society, nothing more. People who take the bible literally piss me off. Also, people who believe in the stuff tend to be ethnocentric (the belief one's own culture is superior), claiming that their way of doing things is better. The great thing about the scientific method is you can always prove an old theory wrong with new evidence. You can't prove to christians that gays should be respected, is the problem.
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Re: Questions about religion
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on 2006-10-27 13:05:22 (edited 2006-10-27 13:49:18)
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The thing is, and I'm not trying to spoil the discussion because I live for things like this, but there is no answer to this aruguement[Or rather debate]. Science can't prove god does not exist or religion is wrong because we have yet to explore the universe, and even exploring it would be impossible if it really is infinite. There is also no way Religion can prove god does exist, unless the apocolypse or rapture actually occurs. You can throw out whatever scientific theories or religious explinations you want but until either some godly event happens or we explore the universe this arguement will have no end. It's all about what you believe in personally, as long as your not an extremist or finatic then you won't end up pissing people off. [Hopefully.] |
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Re: Questions about religion
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by
 
on 2006-10-27 13:30:25 |
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I dont believe in god either. Religions have cost loads of bad things to world. And also good. I read few of the posts you have made, and all of you are right. I know almost nothing about physics. Its not my favorite subject. But it DOES explain loads of things reasonable. Evolution theory is not accepted by all religions yet. And what would make human to think more about oneself than trusting in that fact that GOD have specially made this world for just HUMANS, and HUMAS happen to be hes most loved creations. No, it cant be true were evolved from some low creatures like monkeys! Fyi! *_* But i got few friends who believe in God. And for them, starting to believe, was their savior! Other was hooked by drugs, and other was bad alcoholist (she is still using too much, but not as much as she used to). That boy (drug dude) got rid of drugs, and that girl (who happens to be that boys girlfriend) quit using alcohol so much it wouldve kill her. Theyre both quite clear now, and pleased with their lifes. They go into local youngs house, and they have engaged. And the fact is, cruel maybe, that religions wont last for forever. Thers already too much inner problems amongst religions. To mention catholic habit to forbid sexual life from priest have arroused few scandals.   |
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Re: Questions about religion
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on 2006-10-27 13:55:48 (edited 2006-10-27 13:57:04)
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Yes, look at the bad things happening in religion or having to do with it, but don't forget that science also causes these things. Both religion and science have flaws. As for what Nekomimi said about the preists not allowed to have sex or things like that, I personally just think that the things that have been happening are bound to happen. You've got to have a strong will or good control to go without sex, a wife, a girlfriend or so on for what you believe in. I think preists should be allowed to have wives, sex, girlfriends or whatever. We're animals afterall, we have primal instincts. Anyway, that's all I'm going to say. Religion isn't my favorite topic to discuss as I don't believe in either religion or science fully, and since I don't take a certain side I flip-flop between the two.>.> @Lu Bu- You should say more.:D |
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Re: Questions about religion
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Sorry... I deleted my earlier post... i really should avoid this topic... I really would like to comment on this... aside from politics... (which i usually avoid posting about as well) this is one of my favorite topics to debate on... However... posting here will probably affect my status... i really have alot to say... and showing comments on a forum is really hard... as people often "presume" a lot of things (that you are insulting, aggravating, etc...) when you're not... *Traumatized by Tekken Zaibatsu Forums* However.... ill let you in on one thing... I live on a country which is known for having devotees performing actual crucifiction to prove their faith  Kneel Before the Great and Benevolent Cow! |