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Absolute Zero and Physical existence
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Essentially, the atom is a conceptual model for a unit of a particular energy. Atoms and subatomic particles are units of particular types of charges, or force, or energies--however you want to put it. An atom isn't a "solid" object. With wave-particle duality in mind--what we call particles also manifest properties of waves--and since a wave is an event (which is non-physical) rather than an object (which is physical), a "particle" is a measurable manifestation of energy. Researchers are always trying to cool matter to absolute zero, a state in which all energy is removed from the matter. But if the matter is essentially a manifestation of particular kinetic energy (a vibration, a wave), and since energy is heat, what would happen if matter (which is energy) had all its essence removed? Would it disappear? Can matter exist at absolute zero? I don't think that it can, because as far as I can tell, "matter" is a phenomenon that, by definition, only occurs above absolute zero, because AT absolute zero, there is no energy. "Energy" can only be measured relative to other energy levels. If something has no energy, then it is not measurable relative to anything and therefore not measurable. That which is not measurable is non-physical. Does this follow? |
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Re: Absolute Zero and Physical existence
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by
on 2006-03-26 23:27:40 (edited 2006-03-26 23:33:13)
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allow me to clear a few things up: a wave is not an event, its a wave! an event is a point in space-time. a wave is a propagation of energy in a medium. a election (or any fundamental particle) is not a wave, its a election. you CAN, however, use the wave equation to solve for various properties of the electron. besides, there is nothing non-physical about an event, or a wave, or a probability. they are real valid physical concepts, just like circle and square and triangle are geometrical concepts. absolute-zero is not the sate where all energy is removed from matter! it is the state where one term in the wave equation is zero; that is the kinetic energy is zero. matter is NOT manifested kinetic energy! matter is made up of particles which are quanta (packets) of energy. true, the energy of a system is relative to the observer. however, zero energy does not mean "nonexistent". i can drop a ball from a tall building, and when it reaches the ground, it will have zero potential energy. when it was in my hand it had zero kinetic energy. the ball didn't cease to exist, but energy was transfered. i hope this has cleared a few things up for you. 
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Re: Absolute Zero and Physical existence
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Where would the energy be transfered to? Ok, if absolute zero is reached, the atomic particles within the matter would have no force. Even after the temperature was increased back to it's stable state, the force of the particles would never regain their momentum back to their original state. Their gravity would have been compromised. It would seem that the ending event would end up as a useless pile of particles with no energy. |
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Re: Absolute Zero and Physical existence
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by
on 2006-03-29 15:12:29 |
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Ok, if absolute zero is reached, the atomic particles within the matter would have no force. No. This is completely wrong! If you have a pile of stuff which is at near- or absolute-zero, that just means the stuff is very very cold. So cold that normal macroscopic effects of quantum mechanics appear much different. For example, see Bose-Einstein condensate . If you increase the temperature of an object, what you mean is you are increasing the internal kinetic energy. Thermal interactions have nothing to do with gravitation. Please, don't just put lots of big words in a sentence to try and sound scientific. If you don't know the definitions of words (like force, gravitation, state), don't use them.
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Re: Absolute Zero and Physical existence
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by
on 2006-04-02 07:49:20 |
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Well. I think absolute zero is a condition where all atoms (electrons especially) stop moving completely. I want to know what happen to the matter. Is it become very solid matter or it will dematerialize because the atoms lost its energy.   |
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Re: Absolute Zero and Physical existence
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by Cless Alvein
on 2006-04-02 14:24:34
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That's a very "classical" view of atoms. With the quantum model, the lowest state of energy a particle can attain is the fundamental harmonic, in which the particle has some very small, minimum, non-zero energy. The arrangement of atoms within a massive body would depend on the atoms involved; for material that crystalize, for example, a _perfect_ crystal lattice in which entropy is zero would be attained. |
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Re: Absolute Zero and Physical existence
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my friend says: "Zero = the absence of something. to have 0 heat = 0 energy because heat is energy, and energy is matter. i think your confusing different types of collective matter to individual particles." In reply to what you said. "when you remove heat, you remove energy. but in duality fermions are particles of matter (iyou, me, cat, desk), they can never occupy the same quantum state in the three dimensions of space and one dimension of time simultaneously it's either/or, a component on duality. Bosons, however, are particles of force (i.e. gravity -- they think, electromagnetism, strong and weak nuclear forces, etc.), which maintains zero mass. since they have zero mass bosons can simply not be associated with temperature. fermions can be associated with temperature, because they have mass. air has mass, everything fermion has mass. if it has mass, it has energy, and takes up space and moves (not in the literal term of walking, but the atom[s] do.)" How would you respond to that? |
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Re: Absolute Zero and Physical existence
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by
on 2006-04-17 11:13:55 |
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@Woji: who are you talking to? I will assume you are talking to me :P Heat is the kinetic energy of a system. You can have a system with zero kinetic energy. Your jabber about bosons in not getting at a point that I can see. You use terms like mass and energy in a classical sense. At extreme energy levels, the universe does NOT behave classically! Go learn about Quantum Mechanics and Special Relativity.
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Re: Absolute Zero and Physical existence
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things don't make sence whe you try to convert someone elses text into your own words to show your view point. Basically all that I wrote before is copied from another forum, I want to have a side in this forum on the conversation also. Does that make sence? |
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Re: Absolute Zero and Physical existence
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by Cless Alvein
on 2006-04-17 17:18:06
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Not at all... Maybe you should look up a definition of kinetic energy and then get back to this discussion afterwards. |