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Having trouble understanding gravity.
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Ok, gravity has been described to me as basically being like if you put a heavy object in the middle of a sheet of paper, then place a ball near the edge of the indentation. Obviously the ball would be pulled in. At least, they say something to this effect. Unfortunately, this description is so simplistic that it is worthless to me. For one thing, I can't imagine 4D space in 2D and still apply the same principles. When I try to imagine the dent in three dimensions, it just doesn't work quite right. For another, this simple example is using 3D gravity on a 2D example anyway (eg the downard push against the flat sheet of paper.) In my mind, I just can't reduce this 4D universe down to 2D. So, I've tried to figure it out on my own. The best I could come up with is that maybe the electrons of other atoms are somewhat attracted towards the protons of others while the electrons of the second atom keeps the first one from getting too close. Ok, it's a bit silly, but, so far it's all I could actually come up with in my head. The way they describe it makes it sound as if gravity were some distortive effect of another dimension or something silly like that. You can't "dent" empty space after all, right? Anyway, it would be nice if you could clear me up of my little misconceptions here. Hope you don't mind me asking such a simplistic thing here, but, this is the first place I've seen like this with a whole section devoted to physics, but not so advanced as to discourage someone like myself who hasn't even had anything beyond a physical science class. |
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Re: Having trouble understanding gravity.
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on 2004-08-18 11:36:30 |
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let me make one thing clear: the electro-magnetic force and the gravitational force are SEPARATE. the bending of space is only one way to look at gravity. empty space itself does indeed change it's properties in the presence of a gravitational field. of course it is difficult to 'visualize' a 4D space-time environment the way you visualize a 3D grid, thats because we can only 'see' in 3D. we have no other frame of reference or experience in our minds. that is why physicists have to study for years in order to understand phenomena like gravity in a more accurate way. it is said by some string theorists that gravity is the result of the subatomic quantum particle called a graviton. these quanta of energy are not bound to space time in the normal way that other particles, like photons and protons are. it is said that these particles escape our 4D 'membrane' (or 'plane') of existence and this is why the gravitational force is so weak compared to the electromagnetic and nuclear forces. 
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Re: Having trouble understanding gravity.
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on 2004-08-18 13:04:20 |
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The way I have always come to terms with this problem is to imagine myself viewing an object from a number of different angles. First I view it in my mind coming straight at it. Gravity is bending down. Then I movie underneth it. Relatively, its still bending down. Then I look at it from behind, still down. Then I flip myself upside down, still down. Then backwards, down. After I have done this, I then try to merge all of these views together. Gravity isn't necessarly bending "down" but IN to the planet from all relative angles. I then tell myself that there is only down when you are already caught in a gravity field. Granted, all of this is a bit more convincing after a few Red Bull and Vodkas...
--theKiyote
"Everything you ever loved will be altered or destroyed" |
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Re: Having trouble understanding gravity.
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So, is gravity not 100% understood even by physicists? I was afraid I was missing something rather important. I could never figure out just what was actually causing the force. If all matter is attracted to all other matter by this tiny force, then something must actually be causing it... Can you tell me a bit more about this theory of a graviton particle? I can easily imagine looking at it from all angles, yes, but, I still can't apply the 2D principle that still uses gravity in a third dimension itself to explain gravity in reality. |
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Re: Having trouble understanding gravity.
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on 2004-08-18 19:56:25 |
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the 'thing' that attracts all massive particles toward each-other is called gravity. this is known to be true, and the force of attraction can be mathematically calculated. anything further than that is theoretical. theoretically, gravitons are responsible for gravitational fields just as electrons and protons are responsible for electric and magnetic fields. so far, nobody has been able to quantize gravity (isolate or measure one graviton).
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Re: Having trouble understanding gravity.
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Are you saying that gravitons also exists within protons and electrons since they both exhibits gravitational traits?
Death, Rebirth and Create
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Re: Having trouble understanding gravity.
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on 2004-09-03 07:36:07 |
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electrons yes, photons no. electrons are a component of matter, photons are a form of energy. more specifically, photons are an oscillating electro-magnetic wave which permeates space at the speed of light in a vacuum. photons are effected by gravitational fields because those fields 'bend' the space-time in their path, so it looks like the photon's path was bent. electrons may be way smaller than protons in mass, but they still have a gravitational field about them.
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Re: Having trouble understanding gravity.
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all matter contain gravitons. these gravitons interact with other gravitons forming gravity! am i correct? |
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Re: Having trouble understanding gravity.
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Very interesting... Let's compare Gravity and Electromagnetic interactions : all particles that have a MASS may experience GRAVITY. ex. : electrons, protons, neutrons, neutrinos counter-ex. : photons ( they have no mass! ) They exchange energy carried by a non-massive particle called GRAVITON. all particles that have an ELECTRICAL CHARGE may experience ELECTRO-MAGNETIC FORCE ex: electrons, protons , positrons counter-ex. : neutrons, neutrinos, photons They exchange energy carried by a non-massive particle called PHOTON. (yeah, light !) Basically 2 charged objects attract / repulse each other because they exchange photons (!). Why cannot we see those photons ? (Human beings are reputed to be sensitive to light after all ....) Well, because photons are just variations in the electrical field according to the 4D of space-time. The eye can only see those variation that are very fast with time (visible light = around 10^14 Hz = 10^14 oscillations per second). Two macroscopic objects (two charged spheres for ex.) interact through an electric field that only varies with space. This is as far as I can go, not being a knowledgeable physicist myself. Please correct me if I'm wrong :) |