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Akikojam's Situations: Situation 1
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on 2011-02-19 09:33:20 |
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Okay, I decided to post various hypothetical situations(usually I'll take them from some games or anime, but some I'll think of myself). So, the point is to make choice in those situations, like in a poll. Sometimes situations limit choices, sometimes they don't state them. No choices are really wrong or correct. I won't count results or give any conclusion to your answers, but if you can say it - I would want to hear your comments or reasonings(if any) to your choices. So here's the first one, it's a simple question asked at the beginning of Baldur's Gate 2: You and your friend were captured by an evil wizard. He placed you into a seperate cells with no way to communicate and explained the rules of game. In each cell there is a button. If you don't press the button - you both die. If one of you presses the button and the other doesn't - the one who presses it dies and the other is set free. If each of you presses the button - you both die. So the choices are: 1)Press the button 2)Don't press the button This is a hypothetical situation, so don't answer "Depends on the friend" or "Is it really impossible to communicate?". Answer only based on situation. So, my answer is: I'll press the button. Reason is - I won't be able to live with a burden of sacrificing someone for myself to live on. |
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Re: Akikojam's Situations: Situation 1
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on 2011-02-19 15:38:23 (edited 2011-02-19 15:42:18)
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I know this dilemma. I read it in a philosophical book detailing the top 50 philosophical ideas. In any case, this is known as 'THE PRISONER'S DILEMMA'. There are several possible outcomes: ME: Press button: I'm free; not for him FRIEND: He's free; not for me STAY PASSIVE: WE BOTH DIE STAY ACTIVE: WE BOTH DIE It's being studied extensively and I believe that: IF we both care for each other and if we both press the button; at least we 'died' together. IF we both do not care for each other or that we were merely acquainted and haven't built up trust, we die together too; however the thought of dying would be painful and eerie. IF the friend had the capabilities to continue the mission and I do not, I would sacrifice myself, though that would lower his mental and emotional health; unless he was able to control himself. IF he died but I had the capabilities, the best thing would be to remember him and do not let the sacrifice be in vain. IF one of us pressed the button out of enmity at one another, then the 'ENTIRE' mission would be absolutely pointless; unless the other is good in the art of deception. SO, which one? I remain passive in my answer. I am agnostic as to the what the other thinks. This scenario places much importance in to the mental and emotional stability of the person. In fact, these kinds of situations could provide us with a treasure trove of information in to the mind of the subject. The one who casts the scenario gains much and unless he is merely testing has nothing to lose; unless one of the partners had a firm intention to carry out his duty. Reminds me of the U.S First Infantry Division's motto: NO MISSION TOO DIFFICULT, NO SACRIFICE TOO GREAT; DUTY FIRST! But personally, NAH AND NO WAY I WANT THIS KIND OF THING TO HAPPEN BETWEEN ANYONE. Not only that, but the one who proposes these kinds of things with malevolence or bent on duty and adopted an apathetic trait to the duty is really not good for society. Hopefully people realize that life is precious.  |
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Re: Akikojam's Situations: Situation 1
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on 2011-02-19 15:51:30 |
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Well, I don't read philosophy books, so I wouldn't know. But well, what you said is pretty similar, except for you decide your own fate, not your friend's. But what I asked is exactly for the answer while ignoring general situation, conditions and such. After all, whatever the situation is and no matter how much trust there is or isn't it still all comes to a choice of pressing or not pressing the button. But as I mentioned friend, not companion or ally, let's assume there is enough trust. Also, as I said, my questions will be hypothetical, something that most likely won't happen (except for some rare ones). |
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Re: Akikojam's Situations: Situation 1
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on 2011-02-19 17:08:15 (edited 2011-02-19 17:15:58)
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To be honest, I'd rather simply do nothing and wait for either a death once time has expired, or until my friend decided to push the button. Why? Well, assuming that I survive, there's a few reasons. One would be because of my somewhat "selfish" side. If I was pushed to an extreme like that situation, my only thought would be that my life is for me to live and nobody else, so sacrificing it wouldn't be in my interest. Sure it might seem like a bad way to be thinking, but then again, it saves my friend from having to live, possibly traumatized by my sacrifice in some way. It's also possible that my friend may be so badly traumatized by my death that they commit suicide, which puts my sacrifice to waste, not that I would know, but let's say I somehow turn into one of those TV show spirits that just escape from their body after death and become an invisible spectator. Seeing that would definitely piss the hell out of the ghost version of me. I'm certain that if I survived, I wouldn't break down to the point of suicide. Maybe intense depression, but I'd never hurt myself. (narcissist =3) So if my friend was watching me, their sacrifice wouldn't have been a waste of effort, unless the wizard decided to play us and blow me up or something after I got out. Now, assuming that I died after the time limit... Well, what can I say? High five? o.O My fate would basically be decided by my friend, but that's how I would handle it. And sure, I'd basically be telling my friend to screw off and die, but what can he/she/it do about it? Nothing.  |
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Re: Akikojam's Situations: Situation 1
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on 2011-02-20 07:06:42 (edited 2011-02-20 07:12:01)
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If you push the button and your friend doesn't it won't make him some kind of bad guy after all, maybe he has his own reasoning, something left to do. So pressing it means you have no regrets. Though when the button kills your friend it's a bit different effect, you can't know for sure if your friend wants something to do. I think, in such situation, you should take a path that kills you unless you have something important left to do (dunno, save the world maybe). Though I kinda understand your reasoning of having someone else carry the burden of your death. So actually, the best possible solution I can think of is for both to die, unless one of the two has something holding him back from dying. |
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Re: Akikojam's Situations: Situation 1
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by angel_of_stone
on 2011-02-22 10:37:17
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Don't push the button and you die. Push the button and there's a 50% chance of not dying. I would probably push the button.
"But as Deepak Chopra taught us, quantum physics means that anything can happen at anytime and for no reason." -Prof. Hubert J. Farnsworth
"I don't have any opinions anymore. All I know is that no one is better than anyone else, and everyone is the best at everything." -Seymour Skinner "...if I got trapped by an evil wizard then I did enough cool s**t in my life to be content with it ending. " -Wolf |
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Re: Akikojam's Situations: Situation 1
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| Well if I'm on a RPG scenario such as that, I wouldn't push any button, I'd just leave the cell with some help of magic. So there's not much of a dilemma there :c |
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Re: Akikojam's Situations: Situation 1
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by angel_of_stone
on 2011-02-24 13:18:17 (edited 2011-02-24 13:18:47)
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In regards to kuhraziemike's post, I just wanted to point out that this in not the Prisoner's Dilemma. The Prisoner's Dilemma involves you and someone you have never met (i.e. no emotional attachments). You have both been taken in by the government and are being held captive (separate from each other) for a crime that neither of you committed. You get the run down and it goes like this: 1. If you agree to testify against the other guy and he does not testify against you then he gets 10 years in prison and you get like a year of legal stuff and court business, but there would be no evidence against you and your criminal record would remain untouched. 2. If he agrees to testify against you and you do not testify against him then he gets off with about a year of legal stuff and you go to prison for 10 years. 3. If you both testify against each other then there is evidence against both of you, but not enough to fully pin the crime on either one of you so you BOTH go to prison for 5 years. 4. If neither of you testify then there is no evidence and you both go free. The two of you don't get to talk to each other at any point and you don't find out who testified until the trial has already begun and it is too late to change your mind. It is basically a study of self preservation and logic. The way it works is if you testify you will either get no jail time or 5 years. If you don't testify you will either get no jail time or 10 years. The common conclusion is that both people would get 5 years in prison. The thinking would go like this: "Hmmm... If he doesn't testify then it doesn't matter what I do, I get out of this mess with no problems. If he does testify though, then it would be best for me to testify as well so that I get the least amount of jail time (5 years instead of 10). Basically, I should testify." And they both think the same way and they both testify and they both go to jail. There are some augmented versions also, like the same situation but the two are given time to talk to each other (note: distrust in meeting new people under pressure leads to both still going to jail)
"But as Deepak Chopra taught us, quantum physics means that anything can happen at anytime and for no reason." -Prof. Hubert J. Farnsworth
"I don't have any opinions anymore. All I know is that no one is better than anyone else, and everyone is the best at everything." -Seymour Skinner "...if I got trapped by an evil wizard then I did enough cool s**t in my life to be content with it ending. " -Wolf |
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Re: Akikojam's Situations: Situation 1
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on 2011-02-25 01:35:29 |
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AHAHAHA...... Gomen ne!!! Sorry Sowwy, I just got a bit excited so yeah, It may not be the Prisoner's Dilemma but it is a variant of it.... Any case, I'm just glad that people are exercising their heads and join the philosophical discussions. |
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Re: Akikojam's Situations: Situation 1
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on 2011-02-25 23:59:43 |
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I think some of you may have confused pushing the button for your safety with pushing your button to sacrifice yourself. xD It's a big difference if you look at it that way though. If pushing the button meant I lived, then it'd change my thinking slightly. Pushing the button for either me or my friend means that ourselves mattered more than the other person, so that pretty much takes out the possibility of the other living with the burden of their friend's death. So what does that really mean? Well then it's not really a good sacrifice then is it? Wasting your life for someone who values their own life values their own life over yours. Sounds kind of idiotic. If that were the case, I'd smash the button in 1000 times and try not to regret it. This makes me look waaay more selfish in comparison to the other situation. xD |
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Re: Akikojam's Situations: Situation 1
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| Cast Protection From Spells, smash the button, and hope I can save throw against the device. You make me want to reinstall BG2, it was such a good game. D&D humor aside I'd press the button because that single moment holds the only chance that one of us will survive and if I got trapped by an evil wizard then I did enough cool s**t in my life to be content with it ending. |
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Re: Akikojam's Situations: Situation 1
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on 2011-03-07 22:47:37 (edited 2011-03-07 22:49:23)
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@Wolf: Haha, nice response. That would surely be a good solution at BG2. Just to say, answering "press the button" summoned one ogre to fight, answering "don't press the button" summoned several goblins. :) So, pressing the button also gives you bonus exp at expense of higher challenge rating. Though I only took a question from here (The very same question is asked by a genie or something at the starting dungeon). It doesn't have any AD&D at the question itself. |