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Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
Link | by D-ninja on 2006-11-05 14:12:29
Remaining strictly professional, I would say to go with the site that shows the highest probability of remaing operated in a mannor that would be deemed just and appropriate. Also taking into consideration which one has/will have the larger database after the conclusion. There is always, as riceboks pointed out, to simply remove all links to either database and solely depend on the internal one.

Applying morality and judgement, was it right for Philip to remove Igor's ads from the site: From what it sounds like what happend was that Philip removed the ads and replaced them with his own (please correct me if I'm wrong) which as his not owning the site is a tad on the illegal side. It is comparable to a hacker getting a passcode to edit a random site (i.e. google, however unlikely) and changed the ads on the site with their own. That could result in legal actions taken against the domain's owner for contract infrindgement on the grounds of early termination of their ad. It would then be in legal bounds for the domain owner to find this hacker and prosecute for the vandalism, loss of revinue, damages, and other charges. Also I believe there are federal charges if this hacker were to make a profit off of such an action. As to the "rightness" of the action on the part of Philip, if Igor had entered into a contract with an advertising company Philip would be bound by the agreements set forth in such a contract regarding the posting of ads. Philip would not be required to host the ads on his server. He would, however, be required to have them posted under the domain (which, to as my understanding, was owned by Igor). Philip would be able to host his onw ads under his own server, he would not be allowed to generate profit by posting them under a domain that he did not own or have contractual agreements with. If he were to do this there could be legal action on the part of the domain owner on the grounds of contract violation.

As per the question on is right for Igor to use the content hosted on Philip's server under his own domain by retrival through means of a web crawler to which neither had intellectual property: no, legal yes (provisionary)
Intellectual property - As defined by Article 2, section (viii), of the Convention Establishing the World Intellectual Property Organization, done at Stockholm, July 14, 1967, "intellectual property" shall include the rights relating to: literary, artistic and scientific works, performances of performing artists, phonograms, and broadcasts, inventions in all fields of human endeavor, scientific discoveries, industrial designs, trademarks, service marks, and commercial names and designations, protection against unfair competition, and all other rights resulting from intellectual activity in the industrial, scientific, literary or artistic fields.

As to claims by SailorBacon ro having intellectual property rights, in all reality he does not own them either. All rights go to the creators of the various works (i.e. Philip gets rights on his workss for the page, Igor his, and the composers/artists that wrote the lyrics get the rights to them) Those who make the various works hold the intellectual property rights.
work - in copyright law, a universal phrase used for any product of expression that might be protected under copyright, including: a book, a poem, a composition, a movie, a video, an audio recording, a letter, a map, an architectural drawing, a compilation, a computer file, a computer program, an email message, a photograph, a painting, a statue, and many others, fixed in forms now known or yet to be developed.
In all legality it matters not where you get the information so long as you credit the holders of the rights and avoid plagarism.
plagiarism - Using the ideas or words of others without acknowledging the source. This is true even if the ideas of someone else are paraphrased or summarized.
Igor may avoid plagarism by simply saying who holds the lyrical rights and the source from which he aquired the lyrics. He does need to do this or he will be looking at a lot more than a bunch of angry fans. In all reality Philip needs to do this as well.

Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
Link | by Shini on 2006-11-05 20:42:01
As Cardcaptor Raa'Shaun mentioned, right now, Animelyrics.com is down. (I found this out when trying to use the lyrics for Michiyuki for singing lol.) Animelyrics.tv is the same as it .com used to be, and for the moment, is up and running. When both are up and running, make a decision. Right now, just going .com because of loyalty is problematic because it's missing half of it's lyrics.

However, someone else also mentioned, a private database would solve this problem. I'm not saying you should particularly make it, as I know you have your hands full with this site. And I personally love this site lol. But perhaps telling people you'd like for a database of perhaps just the songs you have HERE might be a good idea. New songs can have their lyrics added and such.

Then again, this is just my two cents. I'm not saying side with either one, or to make a hasty decision and leave them both. Either way you look at it, both are a reliable source for quite a few lyrics. In the end, the decision is not ours to make, but yours. After reading the entire thread, I've wanted to pull my hair out. It sounds like there have been some lies tossed around, pulled back, then some reconciliations. However, I do think that Phillip and Igor actually have to sit down and actually TALK about the decision. Xazy and Sailor Bacon SHOULD have been compensated for their work, not just worked like dogs x.x;

...And I've rambled enough. See y'all on the flip side.

Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
Link | by Jakki on 2006-11-05 20:58:28
Note: At this moment, www.animelyrics.com is up and running.

Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
Link | by Steve A. on 2006-11-06 02:59:59 (edited 2006-11-06 03:00:33)
The new AnimeLyrics.com seems to have most or all of the lyrics, but it still has some odd quirks. For example, the letter "n" is missing from some descriptions for no particular reason (leading to words like "Compositio" and "Arragemet"). Also, I may have only contributed 3 lyrics, but I'm not credited for any of them on AL.com even though I am on AL.tv.

And about this whole $32,000 business, is that before or after server and bandwidth fees? It certainly can't be cheap to run a site with that much traffic, so it's not like pmak was running ads solely for profit.

Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
Link | by gendou on 2006-11-06 09:29:24
animelyrics.com would generate negligible traffic since they don't serve media.
although, the site surely requires a dedicated server because of its popularity.
it is probably hosted on a $99/mo machine.


Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
Link | by miffy on 2006-11-06 11:10:58
...Somehow, I find it sad that they would argue over something like this. Anime, in its purest meaning, should be about art and entertainment rather than making money. Most of the material at AnimeLyrics is what others have contributed. Without the community of fans, all anime sites (even Gendou's) would eventually fail. AnimeLyrics should be about providing information for the otaku, not making money. I'm disappointed in them... I do hope that this situation is resolved gracefully and without ill will. AnimeLyrics is such a useful resource. I don't intend to take sides regarding who is right or wrong- I just hope that they will settle this so that everyone can be happy.

Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
Link | by on 2006-11-06 12:16:29
I still think we should say screw it and slave away at making our own lyrics and/or contacting the contributors asking if we could use their lyrics. This is me taking no sides and coming up with an idea that doesn't feed either side and is in the (somewhat?) best interest in this website. I guess. :P


Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
Link | by sakura yuki on 2006-11-07 10:55:08
i think there's one thing that i still am annoyed with both sites.
the lyrics are not up to date. it takes ages to see an anime lyric up on the net... as in general, i don't think it's updated much at all...
i had to refer to other sites to find the lyrics that i want...
can u guyzs keep the site to date? because i see no point in visiting ur site anymore... with or without ur controversial issue.. if this minor problem isn't even solved.

Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
Link | by Xazy on 2006-11-07 11:14:19
The site is out of date and slow to get back up-to-date because of the sheer volume of bad submissions we get. For every one or two good submissions, there's probably at least 50 submissions from people who obviously copy/pasted the lyrics from some other site, didn't read the rules, submitted a song we already had the lyrics for, couldn't even spell the series title properly, etc etc etc

The backlog is the fault of users, not administration.

Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
Link | by gendou on 2006-11-07 13:25:34 (edited 2006-11-07 13:25:46)
It occurs to me that a wiki solution to the lyrics could be very effective at solving the problem of low-quality error-abundant transcriptions/translations.

There is currently such a project with coding in progress here at gendou.com, although the scope would be limited by the songs available for download.


Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
Link | by pigoutgirl8 on 2006-11-07 14:55:29
Does it really matter though?

Both websites have the same lyrics.

'If you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.'

Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
Link | by gendou on 2006-11-07 14:57:46 (edited 2006-11-07 14:58:38)
It certainly matters to Igor, Phillip, and all others who care about either website!
My traffic contribution to animelyrics.* is substantial.

Also, they may have the same lyrics for now, but users might submit content to one, or the other, but not necessarily both.


Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
Link | by Xazy on 2006-11-07 15:35:36
The Wiki idea has been suggested before, but there's a concern about the quality and originality of the lyrics in a situation like that. That's honestly the only thing keeping me from jumping all over that idea.

Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
Link | by gendou on 2006-11-07 17:41:55 (edited 2006-11-07 17:42:11)
as with wikipedia, vandalism and stupid n00bs would be a potential problem and a time consumer.
however, a it could work given a system in which it was easy to find and revert such changes based on a user's history, and an easy-to-use `diff` presentation.
also, there could be a tiered privilege system which allows multiple tiered locking.
for example, user1 is not privileged, and submits lyrics. they are marked for review, and reviewed by someone with lyrics-level 1. this person may trash it as spam, or approve it, perhaps with changes.
if people keep making the same mistake over and over, the level 1 editor can lock it. if the level 1 user was some how in error, a complaint would notify a level-N>1 user to come and help.


Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
Link | by CaptainJoystick on 2006-11-07 18:21:24
Gendou, have you considered simply removing lyric support entirely until such times as the dispute has been settled, or at least until you feel more confident about which side to support?

Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
Link | by gendou on 2006-11-07 18:58:28
CaptainJoystick, did you notice i already did that? :P


Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
Link | by CaptainJoystick on 2006-11-07 20:00:06
Ah, well...

I'll just go over there now...

Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
Link | by Yumi on 2006-11-07 22:12:39
I feel sorry for Sailor Bacon and XAZY, they did a lot of work and their work is like spiraling down into hell. Their hard work should be up proud on the internet, everything going smoothly, etc. etc. Not to be rewarded with all this junk -_-

----Yumi-----

Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
Link | by WindNinja on 2006-11-08 08:21:24
feel sorry for everyone putting in work while those people just gobble up the cash.... but whatever it is... greed is a sin.... may they rot in hell ....no im not a pastor....lol.... feel really sorry for bacon and xazy.... geez.... why do companies always have these sort of people.... they should be kick out of the company....

Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
Link | by aqua on 2006-11-08 17:18:49
Is it only me or this matter become more and more like a long, teary, full of complicated intrigues Korean/Mexican drama? I feel like there are still many things that we don't know in this matter and we will never be able to take a right/wrong decision based as the third party who only know a bit of problem here and a bit of problem there.
I've heard belldandy428 spoke for her partner but there isn't anyone speak for Philip (except a little on Xazy comment). Our admin had buy all the persuasive stuff that Philip had said one sidedly (is this guy a marketing minion?) and Philip seemed to make himself the right person. Is this guy can be trustable in the future if we connect the gendou site to his site? Will he not using us as a scapegoat next time if something happen? For this Igor Bass, he was very passive. He let the problem developed out of the hand and still be so passive about it. Can we rely on him in the future? Will he tell us if a problem arise in the future before it's too late?
I also can't decide at which side we have to side. For now, if the .com site always up/down (means the server not stable) just direct it to .tv. I suggest we follow Xazy decision because he/she is the database administrator (a key person, in my opinion). There is 2 more days before Xazy decide he/she will work on which side. Let's just wait and see...

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