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Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
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I think the real problem here is expecting to turn a profit from a free service. This is why I try to search for as many free internet supplies as possible because it's not worth it unless there's something to sell. Yes, there's advertising, but if you expect to make money off of that, you're going to have some very unhappy visitors.
Nyo! =^__^=
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Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
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by mewarmo990
on 2006-11-13 00:53:13
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http://www.animelyrics.tv/forum/topic_show.pl?tid=24798 It's the AnimeLyrics community's take on the situation, so it's worth a look. I, however, will continue to support the community however I can, regardless of domain name. In the end, it will all come down to which site the users prefer, so it'll be unfortunate if this issue causes a major split in the community. Although - judging by recent responses - things will pretty much remain the same on AnimeLyrics.tv, the switch will definitely confuse some users and maybe permanently throw off the ones who weren't really involved or just missed the redirect page. Like Xazy said earlier, AL.tv as a small, tight-knit anime community has much more appeal to me, as opposed to the new AL.com which has become part of a large anime webring composed of rabid otaku and content leechers. Though I myself rarely directly contribute content, it is really a nice thing to be accepted as a member of the community by intelligent and open-minded people like those on this forum. Plus the format of AL.tv's forum protects my eyes from cornea-melting avatars and signatures! Give it a year. We'll see. Now to go copy&paste this at AnimeLyrics.tv. Btw, I go by the same name on AL.tv, minus the r before the 9.
Maka here is an wonderful example of why it's a bad idea to home school your children.
Maybe also a good example of why inbreeding is a bad idea, although the paternity test has not been done to say for sure.
-Gendou
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Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
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by
on 2006-11-12 22:08:38 |
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@ Gendou: I was going to say, I'm very impressed that you run a site that uses this much bandwidth without any advertising. Especially since music uls/dls use way more bandwidth than just displaying text. You're also very low-key about donations, which is also very refreshing. I wasn't just barely paying the bills as-is, I'd donate a few bucks just for that. As for some others' points about the advertising, it is a tricky matter. Any site, even one operated by volunteers, needs a certain amount of money to maintain the site, and-- annoying as it may be-- leasing webpage space for advertisers is one way of raising revenue. Secondly, one would need hard numbers on how much the site made in ad revenue versus how much maintaining the site actually cost in order to tell how much of that money was actually "profit" as such. Not so much a "moral" point as a personal one: If I ran a site that made some sort of monetary profit, from any manner of source, even if the others maintaining the site were volunteers, I would still offer them some of it as a "thank you" if nothing else, a show of gratitude for all the trouble they go through keeping things running from day to day. The most important thing both sites's people should keep in mind is the original purpose they began the whole venture-- sharing translations of song lyrics-- to remember that it was the fans who made the site what it was, and that the future of either site lies with the support of the anime/j-pop community.  |
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Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
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by kenshinflyer
on 2006-11-12 20:31:22 (edited 2006-11-12 20:38:06)
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This is ridiculous. I've been running to animelyrics for lyrics, and you dissolved this partnership even without releasing lyrics for the new anime? I even try giving lyrics but there are quirks...and the original owners managed to make money out of it? My point: if only we put money second and service first... Come to think of it, Gendou, why not host your own lyrics service, so that there will be no problems? We'll be glad to provide.
BLEHH!
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Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
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I personally don't have a preference for either sites, being a translator here. I've submitted lyrics to the original AnimeLyrics.com site, but it was a pain to realize that there's an error and be unable to correct it. It was an even bigger pain to see horrible lyrics (translations or badly transcribed romaji) on the site. That said, I think it's better to let people easily and quickly put the lyrics via the ro/ka/en buttons on Gendou.com, because if there are mistakes, then the original submitters can easily go back and edit them. What would be even better, though, would be opening the lyrics editing to everyone, wiki-style, so people who understand Japanese better can come back and revise the sub-par romaji, kanji, and english lyrics. I've seen some lyrics here that need work and proper crediting. |
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Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
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I apologize for taking so long to reply, I've been busy with work (school) outside of these sites... First of all, to the person who said that the sites haven't updated in over 2 years, that is false. The updates page hasn't changed, but new content is added all the time (at least on .tv). As for compensation, both Kaitou and Pmak have given me offers and in fact Pmak has already sent me a single payment, and it is one I have no qualms about taking, given the history here. For now, I am continuing to work with both sites. Additional admins have been hired to work on the .tv backend, and so it will continue to run with or without me (though I honestly don't intend to leave .tv because of the awesome forum community there). I have been given moderator status at .com and am helping them design the database to do things that honestly make the job easier from an admin perspective, but I'm not badmouthing pmak for his coding since these issues are the kind that only come up after months of working with the system. Where will these sites go in the future? Animelyrics.tv looks like it's going to be staying the same, for all intents and purposes. Animelyrics.com is going to be part of the AnimeGlobe network that includes animewallpapers, animepedia, animeforums, etc etc... so it's ultimately up to the visitors, honestly, which site they'd prefer. As a casual anime fan (I'm more in it for the music than the cartoons), the smaller site at animelyrics.tv holds much more appeal to me, to be honest. Plus I think the Japanese board on the forums has a much better community and rule structure. But if you're a hardcore otaku and you want to be totally surrounded by anime this and anime that and meet other hardcore otaku, the animelyrics.com network might be more appropriate for you. Who should you link to, Gendou? Whichever you prefer. |
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Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
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This is something that has always been on my mind but I never really posted but here goes. The reason behind all the actions undertaken by Kaitou Ace was due to him being locked out of the site. =/(This can be deduced by looking at the timeline. If there are any other external factors, then please pardon me.) I think Philip locking him out was one of the main factors. So urm yeah. >.> That's what I think at least. Either way, lokcing someone out of an agreed partnership is enough to make one go mad. =/  |
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Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
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| I am remaining neutral until I can get clear order on which actually maintains site better. I don't care what actually happens with layout, I care more about the content. |
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Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
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by
on 2006-11-12 02:14:09 (edited 2006-11-12 02:14:31)
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you are wrong on nearly all the facts! the code belongs to phillip, not igor, as did the server. igor couldn't put up ads, as he did not have access to the host machine. obviously, nobody is getting shot. there is, however, a moral choice to be made, which is influenced by greed. 
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Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
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by SamuraiXmas
on 2006-11-12 02:06:44
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With Databases, especially databases of data that you have absolutely no rights to (Lyrics of Japanese songs? Come on), there should be very little in terms of..how to say it... a "Sense of entitlement" to the materials as they are. Having said that, it sounds to me like Igor owned the domain name, wasn't paying Phillip or anyone else for their coding services, and thus owns the materials as they were published to his website (He owned it, payed for it, etc). At the same time though, in this day and age of wiki's and "Fair use", anyone could take all the data from the site and use it as their own. I mean, you can't own the lyrics to Japanese songs, unless you are a Japanese recording studio. If Igor wanted, he has a very thin case against Phillip for copyright infringement in using the exact same code etc. It's about time people on the internet realize that you have to legalize things, with a lawyer whenever you want to enter into business with someone else. In conclusion; Legally, we should use .com, but in all honestly, Phillip sounds like he deserves it more. Igor could have put adds in there just as easily. Can't shoot him for trying to make a buck. |
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Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
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I say to go with the .tv choice. They have lines between each verse which makes it easier to read, and they have a search thing, although it isn't as good as the one there used to be. Thats how I feel, and I'm not going to .com unless they put the lines between each verse and they make a more appealing layout
If You Add Salt And Butter, It Tastes Like Salty Butter
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Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
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by
on 2006-11-11 19:53:32 |
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any website with hundreds of thousands of users, like gendou.com or animelyrics.com, has the opportunity to make lots of money from advertisements. i do not to have ads on the site by moral choice.
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Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
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Maybe Im taking an odd side to this argument... but, it was a site for uses to find lyrics to their anime songs right??? So why is anyone making money off of this? All the site is for is information... to me it should be run on a completely volunteer ideal. People are providing anime lyrics cause they want to not for a profit.
you couldn't make me laugh if i was laughin' my ass off and you were makin' me do it
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Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
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by
on 2006-11-11 17:37:13 |
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hahahh well put! the only reason i raised the issue is because it interests me, not because i am a direct part of it. although, animelyrics.com gets a significant number of its users from the links on site. currently, i do plan on simply replacing all the animelyrics.com links (over 1,000) with my own wiki-lyrics page, once it's finished.
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Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
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by
on 2006-11-11 16:50:55 |
| What is the problem with typing the lyrics yourself instead of linkng to animelyrics.tv or whatever the site is now? If you are too lazy to even do that much, then just ask for us to donate lyrics. It's not a problem for us. And it's not even YOUR problem what anime lyrics is doing. That is, of course, unless you are some sort of branch of anime lyrics. If you are, then it's not your problem. If you're not, then forget them. |
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Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
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IMO, the one who earned any secret profits is 100% wrong. As stated in the partnership act, anyone who is part of the company owned fiduciary duties to it. This include not making any secret profits for the company. So what if Philip had contribute most of the coding of the website, he is just a volunteer, or maybe an employee for it. Igor, who is the first to register the domain name, is undisputable that he is the creator of the website, by law. that same goes for Xazy and the rest, indeed they did contribute most of the work, but by law, they will lose out because in the court's opinion, they are just volunteers. This is because they are not bound by any contracts (they have the obligation to withdraw anytime). Of course, since i know xazy are definately not interested in money, its just a pity. To be frank, philip can be easily liable for earning secret profits, conflict of interests. By creating a similar website with similar domain name, it is very obvious he is using other people's name (eg. brand name) to earn money for himself through advertisements. There is definately a breach in copyright issue. Btw, indeed he deserve some money in return for his service to the website. But without telling Igor and the rest about it, keeping the money himself, he is earning secret profits. And for that, he can be criminally liable. At least, Igor is willing to pay Xazy for any future work. Philip is just meer scandaling money out from others' contributions. People! don't just look at how much contribution one had made. In reality, is all about money. A slave who work more than a stock broker and yet his pay is insignificant to him. So where is the justification. It is really the state of mind of someone you need to look at. Money makes the world go around... |
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Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
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| Well, to be honest, considering neither site has had new content added in over two years, I would link to whichever site updates first. |
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Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
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by
on 2006-11-10 16:42:40 |
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Having read the responses thus far, I can say that the only sure thing about this matter is that this conflict between the original site founders is a much greater hardship on both the individuals who actually hard stuff coding, maintaining and screening submissions, as well as the people who actually use the site, either making submissions, or simply looking for translations of their favorite songs. On a practical level, I will probably use whichever site has what I'm looking for, but will use ".com" as a last resort, and go to ".tv" for it first, because, as a creative type who does most of his own work, spidering a database that others did most of the actual work of creating just doesn't sit well with my principles. (If someone cracked my computer, dug up all of my manuscripts and designs, and tried to post or publish them somewhere, I would be furious.) The fact that one party snuck a copy of the original-- which they claim a legal right to to begin with-- only makes this business seem even more convoluted. My sympathies lie with Sailor Beacon and Xazy, etc, for all of their tireless work, regardless of how things shake down between the two sites. |
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Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
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by Rinji-chan
on 2006-11-10 14:34:16
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Personally, while I think removing ads and replacing them with your own wasn't the best decision, I think that a person webcrawling a website who had no hand in coding, putting together, or spending the years of time it took to build just jacking up once they decide to take back the name is horrible. I think it spits on all the hard work that Xaxy and SailorBacon worked to make and is a quick and selfish solution. I would visit .tv simply for this reason, despite that phillip might have been a bit underhanded but what he did benefited himself, the webcrawling just seems to disregard the hundreds of contributors and maintainers. By reading the responses, there seems an attiude of self-deserving, like that because they own the website (but not the server by the end) that they have rights to everything despite the little work they put into it originally. I'll stop before I get angry, but I agree with the .tv in the end.
Some people are born with tragedy in their blood.
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Re: The Animelyrics.com Controversy
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Before I say anything, I'd like to clarify neither result actually changes me, so as an unbiased user that barely uses gendou even more so than animelyrics.*, I'd like to state my humble opinion. The situation is pretty complex. To be honest, I also think what makes it complex is what each side claims of the other, which can often become a contradiction. I was not there experiencing the situation with the creators and maintenance people, and I cannot honestly say I've been on a similar situation. However, one should be aware that a website is done for a community. Then again, idealistically speaking, a website --especially an anime website, I'd like to think-- is done for a small percentage of personal satisfaction. Disregarding all the background that has brought the site to what it is today just for the sake of the community is harsh, in my opinion, because it ignores all the people's and staff's sweat and blood that made it possible. I think it's ok to ask the community for their stance on the case, yet from my point of view, the ones that should have the final word on the matter are the people that were there from the beginning, working sorely out of their own personal interests and passion, and not because the ads would or would not pay. I'm talking about Sailorbacon and Xaxy, whom from my perspective are the only ones who actually "feel" the situation. We are just bystanders. We just want the lyrics. For them, it's something more. And that, I think, is what matters. |